Caller: You did a survey on this tract 10 years ago and there is a problem with the description. Can I get a copy of the survey?
Me: (after looking at the file), yes we did it for Mr X. What is your relationship to him?
Caller: My family business bought it from him 4 years ago.
Me: Well, I'm not going to let loose a copy of the survey, but I don't mind sending you a copy of the small portion in dispute. We're only liable for the survey for 4 years after the date of the stamp, and I'm not going to bring myself into any problems.
So, I copied this area and sent it to her. There is no names, no certification, no company info, no date, nothing. What I gave her is little more than a cartoon. I did all this assuming that a lawyer mistyped the description I wrote.
She emails me back wanting a copy of the plat. I wrote out a nice long, polite, response that I would not be doing that.
Now she's got Mr. X calling and leaving messages wanting a copy of the plat. It turns out that when he sold her the property, he used the previous description, and not the one that I wrote. So at this point, legally, my survey does not exist. Mr. X can't find his copies, none exist outside of this building, and the 4 years has expired.
So now I've got to call Mr. X and tell him he's out of luck.
I've already made my mind up, but I was just wondering if there was anyone, anywhere, that would release a copy of this plat.
If the original client wanted a copy, I would provide him and him only with a copy. A letter of submittal would be added explaining that the survey was current as of the date of the survey plat, and in your case, the surveyor's liability expired four years after that date.
I have surveyed the same property (again) that I had surveyed years before, and the chain of title used in subsequent transaction(s) utilized the deed of record and not the description that I wrote. I see this as an opportunity to make sure our survey data is recorded for public use and improve a deficiency in a record description. Our job is to preserve boundary lines and make them better by locating, monumenting and describing them more accurately, and by leaving our "footprints." If an attorney chose to utilize a record title (for whatever reason) instead of a description written by a surveyor and based upon an actual ground survey, this would be an opportunity to correct that deficiency. Charge a little for a copy and your time.
I do, but only to the owner of the property who ordered and paid for the survey. No changes, no seal, just a copy. $45.00.
Realtors no, second owners no, title companies NO.....etc
😎
FL/GA PLS., post: 432667, member: 379 wrote: I do, but only to the owner of the property who ordered and paid for the survey. No changes, no seal, just a copy. $45.00.
Realtors no, second owners no, title companies NO.....etc
😎
Have you ever gone back to see if those properties were sold soon after you gave out an owner's copy?? I saw that all the time, so I quit doing it.
Harold, post: 432666, member: 4544 wrote: If the original client wanted a copy, I would provide him and him only with a copy. A letter of submittal would be added explaining that the survey was current as of the date of the survey plat, and in your case, the surveyor's liability expired four years after that date.
I have surveyed the same property (again) that I had surveyed years before, and the chain of title used in subsequent transaction(s) utilized the deed of record and not the description that I wrote. I see this as an opportunity to make sure our survey data is recorded for public use and improve a deficiency in a record description. Our job is to preserve boundary lines and make them better by locating, monumenting and describing them more accurately, and by leaving our "footprints." If an attorney chose to utilize a record title (for whatever reason) instead of a description written by a surveyor and based upon an actual ground survey, this would be an opportunity to correct that deficiency. Charge a little for a copy and your time.
So let me get this straight. In this situation there is a boundary dispute, the original client has no current interest in the property, my survey description is not of record, and you would release a copy of the survey to the original client?
FL/GA PLS., post: 432667, member: 379 wrote: I do, but only to the owner of the property who ordered and paid for the survey. No changes, no seal, just a copy. $45.00.
Realtors no, second owners no, title companies NO.....etc
😎
I understand this to mean that you would only release the survey to the owner you originally worked for if they still own the property.
If the map is signed and dated with the original date and it's beyond the statute of limitations in your state, I'm not sure what you're liability concern is.
In a case like that, I would be willing to provide copies to the original client and to parties he requests copies to in writing for a fee sufficient to cover the time & materials needed to provide the copies. A copy of the description provided might also be good to send. That might prompt the parties to straighten out the seller's error without involving you further.
Say:
"Now lemme get this straight
You put the lime in the coconut, you drank 'em bot' up
Put the lime in the coconut, you drank 'em bot' up
Put the lime in the coconut, you drank 'em bot'up
Put the lime in the coconut, you call your doctor, woke 'im up
Said 'doctor, ain't there nothing' I can take?'
I said, "doctor, to relieve this belly ache"
I said 'doctor, ain't there nothin' I can take?'
I said, 'doctor, to relieve this belly ache'"
eapls2708, post: 432675, member: 589 wrote: If the map is signed and dated with the original date and it's beyond the statute of limitations in your state, I'm not sure what you're liability concern is.
In a case like that, I would be willing to provide copies to the original client and to parties he requests copies to in writing for a fee sufficient to cover the time & materials needed to provide the copies. A copy of the description provided might also be good to send. That might prompt the parties to straighten out the seller's error without involving you further.
agreed, 100 %
Andy J, post: 432669, member: 44 wrote: Have you ever gone back to see if those properties were sold soon after you gave out an owner's copy?? I saw that all the time, so I quit doing it.
Nope, most of time the owner wants it for a pool company or a variance for a shed or something. I only survey new housing developments so most of the requests seem OK to me. I've gotten to the point where I "dont give a damn" about Title companies.
Tommy Young, post: 432657, member: 703 wrote: Caller: You did a survey on this tract 10 years ago and there is a problem with the description. Can I get a copy of the survey?
Me: (after looking at the file), yes we did it for Mr X. What is your relationship to him?
Caller: My family business bought it from him 4 years ago.
Me: Well, I'm not going to let loose a copy of the survey, but I don't mind sending you a copy of the small portion in dispute. We're only liable for the survey for 4 years after the date of the stamp, and I'm not going to bring myself into any problems.
So, I copied this area and sent it to her. There is no names, no certification, no company info, no date, nothing. What I gave her is little more than a cartoon. I did all this assuming that a lawyer mistyped the description I wrote.
She emails me back wanting a copy of the plat. I wrote out a nice long, polite, response that I would not be doing that.
Now she's got Mr. X calling and leaving messages wanting a copy of the plat. It turns out that when he sold her the property, he used the previous description, and not the one that I wrote. So at this point, legally, my survey does not exist. Mr. X can't find his copies, none exist outside of this building, and the 4 years has expired.
So now I've got to call Mr. X and tell him he's out of luck.
I've already made my mind up, but I was just wondering if there was anyone, anywhere, that would release a copy of this plat.
All of our surveys are public record. Anyone at anytime can get online and print out as many copies of our surveys as they please.
I thought forever was the timeline in the statute of limitations.
The seller is guaranteeing title is good on the property when conveying with a warranty deed.
The buyer's problem is that old survey and new survey are different enough to not match what is on the ground.
That bad habit of not using the most recent survey of property happens around here all the time to the advantage of one party or the other to avoid higher taxes or obtain a better price per acre on the land.
I call it FRAUD............
Silly people exist everywhere.
In 2002 a fellow purchases a mysterious set of three adjacent tracts, each being in a different half of a half of the southeast quarter of the section. In 2012 he has the description located by a surveyor who writes up three very nice "more particularly described as" metes and bounds tracks. In 2015 the fellow sells the three tracts using the original descriptions and ignores the metes and bounds descriptions entirely. What a doofus (both buyer and seller).
Tommy Young, post: 432657, member: 703 wrote: I was just wondering if there was anyone, anywhere, that would release a copy of this plat.
If I were you I would do it for a reasonable fee. Not for free. You have it, they want it. It will cost them.
Surveyor In Training, post: 432742, member: 10308 wrote: All of our surveys are public record. Anyone at anytime can get online and print out as many copies of our surveys as they please.
For most of my career I've worked in recording juridictions, so my surveys are available to the public forever and always. Naturally, when I prepare them I know that. Maybe that's why I can't do a simple lot survey for under $3k.
Tommy Young, post: 432657, member: 703 wrote: Caller: You did a survey on this tract 10 years ago and there is a problem with the description. Can I get a copy of the survey?
Me: (after looking at the file), yes we did it for Mr X. What is your relationship to him?
Caller: My family business bought it from him 4 years ago.
Me: Well, I'm not going to let loose a copy of the survey, but I don't mind sending you a copy of the small portion in dispute. We're only liable for the survey for 4 years after the date of the stamp, and I'm not going to bring myself into any problems.
So, I copied this area and sent it to her. There is no names, no certification, no company info, no date, nothing. What I gave her is little more than a cartoon. I did all this assuming that a lawyer mistyped the description I wrote.
She emails me back wanting a copy of the plat. I wrote out a nice long, polite, response that I would not be doing that.
Now she's got Mr. X calling and leaving messages wanting a copy of the plat. It turns out that when he sold her the property, he used the previous description, and not the one that I wrote. So at this point, legally, my survey does not exist. Mr. X can't find his copies, none exist outside of this building, and the 4 years has expired.
So now I've got to call Mr. X and tell him he's out of luck.
I've already made my mind up, but I was just wondering if there was anyone, anywhere, that would release a copy of this plat.
Was there a record of survey law in the state where this survey was performed?
Was it in effect at the date of the survey?
Why o why don't all states have record of survey laws requiring filing of all surveys where a corner is set or a material difference between a prior survey is found?
These laws help protect property rights and the fabric of the cadastre. It reduces the potential for survey error based gaps/overlaps. It gives you and every other surveyor reasons to accept/reject found monumentation. It protects and perpetuates your survey. It makes corner cutters think a little longer about which corners to cut since their mistakes/shoddy work will be of record. If your state doesn't have an ROS law - PROPOSE ONE - get a legislator to sponsor a bill.
Record your surveys (if the law in your jurisdiction allows it) - it's the professional thing to do. Then when someone asks - point them to the recorded survey and get working on that other job sitting on your desk.
Just sayin.
I most certainly would give a copy of the survey. If you don't record the survey or give the survey to interested parties you have created nothing of value for your work. If you only have four years of liability you have nothing to lose.
I also wouldn't start a conversation with a potential client by pointing out that four years after you perform a survey you have no more responsibility.
I would offer a fee to update your survey. If Mr. X no longer has an interest in the property then why 10 years later should we feel obligated to provide copies of an out of date survey to him. To me any obligation to a former client on a particular parcel would cease upon transfer of title. If Mr. X still owned the property, I would certainly provide a copy for a nominal fee. But not to a new owner for an issue that arises 10 years later. A new/updated survey for the new owner is what I would offer.
In Virginia we are not a recording/filing state. By law the all plat, notes, computations, research, and so forth belong to the client. We are technically supposed to give all originals of all of the above to the client, and then keep copies for ourselves. That said, I don't know a single surveyor that does this. We keep all originals and give copies of only the plat to the client, and then only give out copies of notes and such by specific request. What I'm getting at here, is in Virginia, you legally can only give a copy to the original client that paid for the survey 10 years ago. I have given out copies, when i knew the survey was recorded previously obviously. Not sure if that helps as every state and situation is different, but because of all this I handle these things like Ron Lang says above.
Chris Duncan, post: 432855, member: 7540 wrote: In Virginia we are not a recording/filing state. By law the all plat, notes, computations, research, and so forth belong to the client. We are technically supposed to give all originals of all of the above to the client, and then keep copies for ourselves. That said, I don't know a single surveyor that does this. We keep all originals and give copies of only the plat to the client, and then only give out copies of notes and such by specific request. What I'm getting at here, is in Virginia, you legally can only give a copy to the original client that paid for the survey 10 years ago. I have given out copies, when i knew the survey was recorded previously obviously. Not sure if that helps as every state and situation is different, but because of all this I handle these things like Ron Lang says above.
So, In Virginia, if the Client requests copies you should promptly give Everything to the Client.
problem solved.
now, my WAG is that all non-recording states would be the same... but who knows.