I had a fellow call me the other day needing a survey for something a little different.
On TVA lakes, there are areas where the property line follows a certain contour, and then several feet above that there is a contour marking a building restriction. If your building violates the lower contour, you're screwed, but if it violates the upper contour, there is a process you can use to remedy the situation, but it will cost about $15,000.
So, this guy had a deal to buy a house, and the owner hired Surveyor X. Surveyor X ran both contours out and said the house was fine, but the attached deck was not. The owner went to TVA and they sent their own crew out. Turns out, not only was the deck encroaching on the upper contour, but so was the house. Surveyor X made a mistake. Two things to remember about re-running these contours are 1) TVA only accepts elevations using their benchmarks and 2) the location of the contours is where they were in 1940. The deal fell through and afterward the owner got his encroachment problem corrected.
Now, this same buyer has a deal to buy the house next door. He is wanting a survey to make sure he isn't going to run into the same problems that came up on the other lot. I gave him a price. He responded, "but that's twice what Surveyor X charge". My response, "But that survey was wrong."
Sounds like he can get a free survey from the TVAB-)
MightyMoe, post: 373124, member: 700 wrote: Sounds like he can get a free survey from the TVAB-)
If by "free", you mean "filling out an application and sending them a few thousand dollars", you're exactly right.
Tell hire the guy that did it wrong, to get his price!
🙂
Tommy Young, post: 373121, member: 703 wrote: 1) TVA only accepts elevations using their benchmarks and 2) the location of the contours is where they were in 1940. The deal fell through and afterward the owner got his encroachment problem corrected.
Of course you have to match the benchmark and datum by which a contour line was created in order to run out that contour. It's incredulous some of the boneheaded things some surveyors do. (not sure I used incredulous correctly)
How do you use the contours from 1940? Are they mapped that well? I wouldn't assume the ground is the same elevation or that any contour line I create today is in the same place horizontally, even if I was on their datum. I am assuming this has to do with flood-way restrictions from the TVA.
We have the same thing in central Kentucky at Herrington Lake.....property lines meander elevation 760.00', flood stage for the dam.....sometimes it can be a real pain in the arse with the cliffs and all.....
"So you paid half the price for the other survey, but tell me, how much did that survey end up being worth?"
Happy you got this phone call and I did not, and to think people get mad when you tell them the price and its not the $150 the realtor quoted them.
Tiglinda, post: 373135, member: 1834 wrote: How do you use the contours from 1940? Are they mapped that well? I wouldn't assume the ground is the same elevation or that any contour line I create today is in the same place horizontally, even if I was on their datum. I am assuming this has to do with flood-way restrictions from the TVA.
You do not use contours from 1940, you use the elevation established in 1940 on a 1940 datum on contours established today using the same 1940 datum.
The contours most likely will vary and more likely will be more precise. Considering that, the property may gain or lose buildable ground area.
Paul in PA
Tommy Young, post: 373126, member: 703 wrote: If by "free", you mean "filling out an application and sending them a few thousand dollars", you're exactly right.
Tommy Young, post: 373126, member: 703 wrote: If by "free", you mean "filling out an application and sending them a few thousand dollars", you're exactly right.
So the guy paid Surveyor X and then paid the TVA. He spent a bunch to mess up his sale.
Tommy Young, post: 373121, member: 703 wrote: I had a fellow call me the other day needing a survey for something a little different.
........ Two things to remember about re-running these contours are 1) TVA only accepts elevations using their benchmarks and 2) the location of the contours is where they were in 1940. The deal fell through and afterward the owner got his encroachment problem corrected.
I'm not sure that I am following you here. When you say the location of the contours is where they were in 1940, are you referring to as they are shown on an existing map, or are you having to try to stake their x,y location based on where they were shown in 1940? I would figure that the ground elevation has changed somewhat over the years, and if you re-ran the contour lines out (even using one of TVA's benchmarks) that their location would be different than is was in 1940.
Pretty sure I am just being dense, its been a long week.
Tom Adams, post: 373128, member: 7285 wrote: Of course you have to match the benchmark and datum by which a contour line was created in order to run out that contour. It's incredulous some of the boneheaded things some surveyors do. (not sure I used incredulous correctly)
Lots of people think you can set a point with GPS, and then convert the elevation to NGVD 29. Practically speaking, that will usually get you close enough. However, if it's a tight tolerance, you will have to track down one of their benchmarks.
Matt McCrory, post: 373163, member: 10684 wrote: Happy you got this phone call and I did not, and to think people get mad when you tell them the price and its not the $150 the realtor quoted them.
If you had gotten this call, and then done the survey, the Kentucky Board would have had a few things to say to you, haha.
kkw_archer, post: 373172, member: 5453 wrote: I'm not sure that I am following you here. When you say the location of the contours is where they were in 1940, are you referring to as they are shown on an existing map, or are you having to try to stake their x,y location based on where they were shown in 1940? I would figure that the ground elevation has changed somewhat over the years, and if you re-ran the contour lines out (even using one of TVA's benchmarks) that their location would be different than is was in 1940.
Pretty sure I am just being dense, its been a long week.
You're not being dense. This is what it boils down to. If TVA thinks that there has been any grading, they will not accept the current contour. If it's a wooded area, and doesn't look disturbed, they'll accept it. If they don't accept it, you've got to scan the map from 1940, and trace it.
Tommy Young, post: 373185, member: 703 wrote: You're not being dense. This is what it boils down to. If TVA thinks that there has been any grading, they will not accept the current contour. If it's a wooded area, and doesn't look disturbed, they'll accept it. If they don't accept it, you've got to scan the map from 1940, and trace it.
Ahh, I see now. Thank you sir.
Tommy Young, post: 373185, member: 703 wrote: You're not being dense. This is what it boils down to. If TVA thinks that there has been any grading, they will not accept the current contour. If it's a wooded area, and doesn't look disturbed, they'll accept it. If they don't accept it, you've got to scan the map from 1940, and trace it.
sounds quite logical. what about naturally caused elevation change? such as erosion or accumulated material?
kkw_archer, post: 373188, member: 5453 wrote: Ahh, I see now. Thank you sir.
I was a little confused by that, too. I was thinking "why can't you just shoot the elevations of the structures based on their benchmarks". But I see, if the topo has been changed, it is no longer accepted.