I received a call from a realty broker, requesting a fee for a 7 acre shopping center ALTA/ACSM Land Title Survey. The parcel is extremely busy with numerous easements. All but 3 items of Table A were checked as what they needed. My estimate was $17,000. I just received an email telling me that they are going to go with another company for $2,400.
Am I messed up on my estimating? I don't think so. I think the low baller is going to have his hat handed to him and wind up in court.
Your thoughts?
> I received a call from a realty broker, requesting a fee for a [....]
In the first sentence there are two bits of information that give a clue as to the probable outcome.
1. A real estate broker (not the buyer) is calling. Red flag.
2. They are price shopping. Multiple red flags.
Another way to clarify the issue would be to rephrase the sentence.
"I got a call from a salesperson whose commission depends upon a real estate deal closing without the survey disclosing any problems. They want me to tell them how much I would bid to make the survey because they and possibly others connected with the transaction want the survey to cost as little as possible"
A nice way of explaining a vulture....
Your fee looks good to me. I just threw a proposal for an ALTA on a 13 acre parcel that has a 239,000 square foot building on it for 25000. (yes, little more than an acre to topo, but it's in Broward County) Was told to be there Monday. Things are getting much better down here, as long as the "survey brokers" keep screwing up.
:good: :good:
Kevin, you may rest assured that they will get what they pay for. AND that will be a problem. Sounds like that "national agency" is back in town again.
Watch the site. if it's the same bunch that got us like that, you will note that they "forget" to set the corner pins. The Board will make them go set them. 😀
The $2400 figure might do for an update.
I tried to work for a company from Rhode Island for the second time.
The first project was an ALTA re-certification. 30+ acres. I said I wanted to be part of the proposal process. I was excluded.
The estimate was $4400 or some bogus number. I asked the boss if he knew how much he low bid the project. He replied that he knew as soon as they paid in full, the same afternoon they received the proposal. Several Table A items checked that were not part of the original.
Make matters worse, the previous surveyor botched an interior loop by 0.54'. It did not affect the perimeter, but did affect the interior locations. Had to fix too much... I could have started that career off with a winner, but instead left with a sour taste.
What can you expect from a mimbo engineer who is just a manager? Those who can, Do. Those who cannot, Teach. Those who cannot teach, Manage.
I can see your point IF all you had to do was to make sure the pins were still there and no additional improvements had to be added to your map.
I see it costing more than $2400 to update an existing survey if you address all concerns on the updated title policy or commitment, verify control and monuments, etc....
>
> "I got a call from a salesperson whose commission depends upon a real estate deal closing without the survey disclosing any problems.
That is a very illuminating observation. The conflict of interest is glaring. Just as glaring as is the ethics violations of a real estate broker negotiating any survey based upon anything other than qualifications of the surveyor and value of the completed survey.
Sure they weren't missing a zero on that $2,400 figure?
$2,400 wouldn't even cover the labor alone, much less make a profit for a project that size. Now that things are starting to get better in the business environment I can't imagine that low ball figure. Would love to see the hand-drawn final when its done. Crayons and/or charcoal on construction paper?
> Sure they weren't missing a zero on that $2,400 figure?
Haha...Maybe he should run with that. Reply to the email saying "I'm sure you will get an excellent product for $24,000 and I commend you for not hiring me for simply having a lower price."
Follow up on the project. Use your contacts at the title company to get a copy of the map. Most likely he documented his own incompetence upon the map. Simply turn it in to your state board and let them do their job. If we don't protect our own profession who else is? My 2 cents, Jp
> I can see your point IF all you had to do was to make sure the pins were still there and no additional improvements had to be added to your map.
>
> I see it costing more than $2400 to update an existing survey if you address all concerns on the updated title policy or commitment, verify control and monuments, etc....
I could not see it costing $2,400 for any reason. This horse has been beat to death, but new date (or this fictitious "update"), new survey....new liability, ergo, new price.
I just quoted an ALTA for 1/2 a city block with some parking areas on the other side of the street. It's a 4 story commercial building. They want ele's on each floor...
over $10k and I'm not sure that will even cover it. I received no title and no other info than the appraisal. If it's an ALTA, it's expensive, end of discussion.
Your price is pretty good for the size of the parcel. I might have been higher than that.
I'm not afraid of people finding out how much I charge for surveying either! Put the general public on notice: This is a professional service and you will pay as such. If I don't get it, I didn't lose money (as they say).
> I received a call from a realty broker, requesting a fee for a 7 acre shopping center ALTA/ACSM Land Title Survey. The parcel is extremely busy with numerous easements. All but 3 items of Table A were checked as what they needed. My estimate was $17,000. I just received an email telling me that they are going to go with another company for $2,400.
>
> Am I messed up on my estimating? I don't think so. I think the low baller is going to have his hat handed to him and wind up in court.
>
> Your thoughts?
So for $17,000, how long are you going to be working on this project? How much field? How much office? I don't do many ALTAs, but around here I don't think you could get a 7 acre survey for $17,000 (unless it includes topo and trees). I know I have done proposals on ALTAs for a lot less and still not gotten the job.
PSSSSTTT!! Bow Tie, he said ALL items, except 3 were checked on the checklist.
In our area, if this is an urban location, he can be up to his yin-yang locating utilities and if Item 20 is checked, his estimate could be WAY too low.
The norm, in our little part of the world, is to show boundary, topo, all improvements, all trees and plantings, all utilities, above and below ground, finished floor elev. on all structures and inverts on everything. It ends up a full blown engineering drawing/boundary survey.
If you can't pick it up and throw it away, shoot it.
Oh, and the details must run to the FAR curb of all streets, at least 30 feet beyond the property lines and the nearest street intersection must be located and shown on the drawing. (Pray for a corner lot!!) And don't forget about having to actually locate that referenced section corner or tie.(Good Luck with that!)
