I am involved in a retracement survey that was done in 2003. On the 2003 survey, a wall was shown out of place by about three feet.
I have the RS about 90% finished and it shows the wall on it. I had to show the wall, because the deed line basically ran down the center of it..
I emailed the client a few days ago and asked him if I could send my results to the other surveyor. The client asked me not to do that and wanted to inform "Everyone" after the survey files, which could take a few months after the map is submitted to the county.
Well, today I thought that all over and just did not like the 'smell' of it all. I also did not like the informing "Everyone" thing, which includes three other people, one being an attorney and possibly the City because of a sewer connection that is on another's land.
So this is what I did..
I stripped off anything that mentioned the wall, and the wall itself from the RS. I then emailed a PDF of nothing but survey data to the other surveyor...client be damned!
My feeling is this.
The survey information is for the public, recorded or not. There is no law suit taking place..yet, and to drop a huge bomb on another surveyor just kinda rubs me the wrong way. Eventually the client will find out about this, but like I care..I kept the issue of the wall private and that is all the client was concerned about in the first place.
I agree with you Paul. Many times when we are looking at complaint cases, we run into situations like you have mentioned and that is one of our first questions. Did you attemtp to discuss with the other side / surveyor / neighbor, etc.
I also agree with your approach.
Maybe I would have done it that way without talking to the Client first, I don't know. This could be classified as professional courtesy while you are still honoring the wishes of the client for the most part. It may come up during the RS review at the County, so it is good that you have already sent the other surveyor a copy for him to review if he wishes. You could explain it that way to the client if they are upset for you making that contact.
Another good job, Paul.
I'm not licensed, but I thought it was part of the rules (in my state) that the other surveyor must be contacted if discrepancies are found.
Why is there a 3-foot discrepency?
I know you wanted to do the right thing by asking the client to show the other surveyor, but this may be a case of "Its easier to ask for forgiveness than permission".
The client doesn't "own" your responsibility as a surveyor to hash out differences with other surveyors. Been there, done that.
The policy I've worked under, is to contact the other surveyor first. Find out what they know, compare notes. Once we understood how they came up with their answer, we made our decision, contacted client, then set monuments.
I agree Paul.
You did the right thing.
It is our responsibility to seek all available sources of information in coming to a boundary decision. This includes talking with surveyor's who have surveyed the locus or adjoining properties. The client telling you to not talk to the other surveyor is like him telling you to only research the property back to 2000.
Paul did right, but I prefer your sequence of tasks Mark.
Paul,
I'm from Ca also and being a recording state and all, the client really has no say in the situation. My duty is to perform the survey and part of that is discussing the survey with other surveyors whose results may be in disagreement with my own.
I remember one, where I found an "error" in another surveyor's work. I called him up and discussed it with him. He gave me a point of view which made me stop and think. In the end I no longer felt he was "in error" but rather had an alternative solution which was valid as was mine. We ended up discussing with both land owners and had some quit claims recorded to eliminate the uncertainty.
I think a phone call goes a long way as the first step. It helps keep issues from being contentious right off the get-go and often gives one a flavor of the deck of cards the other is playing with.
The client, he gets the results only after I have exhausted my investigative work. Part of which is discussion with those whose work is in disagreement.
Paul ya done good!
I don’t know about my state rules implying, or requiring, you should contact the surveyor whom one may think erred, but I always do out of professional courtesy regardless of what the client says. Florida is not a recording state but most surveyors are very cooperative in sharing survey data incidental to potential errors. I know I am. I would always like to be the first informed about a screw up if I made it.
Have a great weekend!
we have the same rule here in MA
when a discrepancy is found, you are supposed to contact the other surveyor
You did the right thing in the wrong way. The client will be upset. I am surprised that your state statutes do not have a clause mandating that surveyors discuss discrepancies. i would have told my client that this is the way things are done to ensure you are not missing something. (not doubting your abilities, sometimes the pertinent document is just our of reach) did the other surveyor have an unrecorded deed that puts the line 3' off the wall? or do you have every piece of information and the other surveyor missed something?
the conversation with the other surveyor is usually difficult; nobody likes being told they may be wrong. enter into the conversation with a very neutral attitude and assume you have missed something they have found. compare notes and come up with the correct solution.
As I have worked in California (northern half) on nothing but ALTA surveys, here's my dos centavos. Paul you are doing just a half **34d survey. Contact the other surveyor would be the first item on my agenda. Also, I worked an area in Stockton CA where all the fences on aprox. 10 lots were off by 3 ft. The problem was the original surveyor had records indicating a road dedication being 3 ft. different that what the city plans, assessors office and many records indicated differently. I've never regretted calling upon another surveyor and consider it part of the survey.
Pablo
> when a discrepancy is found, you are supposed to contact the other surveyor
>
> You did the right thing in the wrong way. The client will be upset. I am surprised that your state statutes do not have a clause mandating that surveyors discuss discrepancies. i would have told my client that this is the way things are done to ensure you are not missing something. (not doubting your abilities, sometimes the pertinent document is just our of reach) did the other surveyor have an unrecorded deed that puts the line 3' off the wall? or do you have every piece of information and the other surveyor missed something?
>
> the conversation with the other surveyor is usually difficult; nobody likes being told they may be wrong. enter into the conversation with a very neutral attitude and assume you have missed something they have found. compare notes and come up with the correct solution.
:good: :good:
I'm not sure why the state statute should require it; however, it's not only professional courtesy, it's part of gathering the evidence necessary to resolve an ambiguity. There are two different opinions as to the location of the wall relative to the boundary. That means there is a conflict in the evidence somewhere causing an ambiguity.
Without talking to the other surveyor before discussing your findings with your client, both surveyors are in a predicament no matter what solution is found.
Glad to see you thought better of your conversation with the client and decided to make the contact. I don't see why you'd withhold evidence from the other surveyor, though. That could backfire as well.
JBS
Right or Wrong - Target
> Why is there a 3-foot discrepency?
The other surveyor messed up.
FWIW..Before I emailed the client about sharing my findings with the other surveyor I did some deed research that went back to parcel creation in the mid 40's. With that evidence in hand, I called the other surveyor whose attitude was basically like this:
"Paul, when you get done with all your work, you email it to me and I will review it. I do not want to get off my ass and look in my job file to see if I made a three foot error. You do all the work for me"
That pissed me off.
Right or Wrong -Spledeus
> You did the right thing in the wrong way.
Not quite. I did the right thing in my way..see my reply to Target Locked about how I was treated by the other surveyor. For a while I was ready to just let the client drop the bomb on him but I changed my mind.
Right or Wrong - Pablo
>Paul you are doing just a half **34d survey.
WTF are you talking about? Have some coffee..see my reply to Target Locked
Everyone just assumed that you hadn't talked to the other surveyor. You didn't mention that you had. That's why you got some less than positive responses, I think.
You obviously handled it all correctly, IMO.
Don
Right or Wrong - Don
> Everyone just assumed that you hadn't talked to the other surveyor.
The problem with chat... incorrect assumptions. Anyway, my OP was about the client and his petty attitude.
as usual, I agree w/ Don
> Everyone just assumed that you hadn't talked to the other surveyor. You didn't mention that you had. That's why you got some less than positive responses, I think.
>
> You obviously handled it all correctly, IMO.
>
> Don
yeah, the fact that Paul had already talked to the other surveyor basically changes everything.
In this case, I would probably agree with the client's wishes since you had already mentioned the problem to the other surveyor and was not happy with his response.
