Questions for the PLSSers

When monuments exist I will use them if they mark the boundary and the test is not how perfect they are based on Chapter 3. For example, you are going through the Forest, there are monuments (not perfect) and there are blazed line trees (not perfect) and there are 200' tall trees on one side of the line and 20' to 50' tall trees on the other side of the line. And you have copies of the Surveyors field notes who blazed the trees and set intermediate angle points 30 years ago for timber harvest on the adjoiner's property. To me that is a pretty obvious established boundary.

What is a section?

> When you subdivide a section, do you go with the guidelines in Chapter 3 only?

Keith, in keeping with the new standard of the message board, I think your question would be: "What is a section?"

What is a section?

Kent,

Since you are not a PLSSer, you need not respond!

We can do without your comments.

Keith

better...

What is Chapter 3.

I am taking it for granted that

the PLSSers know what I am talking about?

Since there are national speakers that are preaching bogus rationales, I am asking real questions.

Keith

better...

I can see this not turning out well......

Don

Don

It could be a serious discussion, or it could be a nonsensical discussion?

Depends on the posters.

Keith

I have to live and work in a PLSS area in which the newest original surveys were done under the Instructions of 1815. No other "instructions" or "manuals" need apply.

Don

I know that your intentions are good; I'm predicting 143 responses before it's over, though, and not all constructive.

Don

Carl

And what are those instructions on subdividing a section?

Keith

Don

We can expect the usual off the cuff responses to be cute, but it also can be a serious discussion...if we want to.

There is more to the story and the story will come out eventually, but for now, lets talk serious.

Keith

Keith,

I have yet to find an entire section that I need to enter upon and survey where I would be the First Surveyor. I use the whole book, along with other books, court cases, deeds, lines of occupation, owners testimonials, local guidelines, local reputations of the footsteps i'm following. ect, ect, ect.

better...

> What is Chapter 3.

Wouldn't that be "Why does Chapter 3 appear before Chapter 4?"

Jered

I think maybe that is the point to all of this? The only reason you as a private surveyor would be subdividing a section is because there is multiple ownerships and maybe Public Land as well and chances are good, that you are not the first surveyor on the ground.

Great post!

Keith

If I'm the first to subdivide it, I go to Ch. 3.

I second that

I do whatever makes the most sense based on the odd combination of information available. This is based on the Government field notes, any prior surveys of record in that section and its adjoiners, road records, deed descriptions of all tracts within the section, physical evidence, history near that section from prior searches for monuments allegedly set but never ever found (or found), gut feelings about the authenticity of monuments found, surface conditions that would impact the reliability of monuments found, bridge surveys, clues from aerial maps and so on and so forth.

A current project involves a section with no record of the center corner having ever been set. The field notes indicate limestones of reasonable size were set at all eight section corners. The three on the south have been obliterated by construction of an asphalt county road over 70 years ago. One survey from the 1800's agrees with the field notes that the south quarter corner is equidistant between the southwest and southeast section corners, but, of a slightly different length than recorded in the field notes. Information for the significant bridge on the south section line indicates the distance from the south quarter corner to the southeast corner is nearly 100 feet shorter than either prior record. Today we used the county's backhoe to excavate 15-foot diameter holes in the rock roads at the apparent locations of three of the remaining corners. Topography suggested the alleged original stones could still be in place if the road builders in the 1870's took care to lower them and if no one else dug them out and pitched them when these were dirt roads subject to deep rutting. We found nothing. The south half of the section has been owned completely by a single family for over 100 years, suggesting that any fencing at or near the north-south quarter section line would not necessarily have been placed based on knowledge of original stones. Three quarters of the north half of the section has also been owned by a single family for over 80 years, thus creating the same problem. One fence that might run along the north-south QSL zigzags around a pond. A fence possibly on or near the east-west QSL is probably a good indicator of where that line was thought to be. There are no recorded surveys for any of the section corners since 1859, except for the south quarter corner mentioned above. Our primary difficulty is establishing the external corners. Whatever clues we get relative to the center corner may influence our thinking on establishing one or more external corners.

All of this being necessary because Mr. X and Mrs. X could no longer be happily married. At first, they were going to simply award her the north half of the northeast quarter and him the south half of the northeast quarter. Neither had any money, yet he owed her some dollars in exchange for keeping something. The result was the divorce decree awarding her the north 85 acres and him the south 75. So much for simple aliquot descriptions and forget calling a surveyor. No. They had to make in complicated. I'm still not sure how we will be required to finalize the division line if the area is excessive or deficient.

Carl

Sections were not further subdivided under the Instructions of 1815.

Although the plats show the quarter lines, they are in brown ink and not black, meaning that they were protracted and never run on the ground by the GLO.

The concept of a center quarter does not exist under the instructions. Surveyors here would likely describe the center as "the NW Corner of the SE Quarter of Section XX" or similar.

Breakdowns of sections were mostly done by county surveyors at the expense of the purchaser of the quarter or half section. County Surveyors typically charged five dollars per day and the work was expected to be done in a day. The purchaser and any available sons were frequently the chain carriers and axemen.

In the early days, the GLO was instructed to turn over all of it's records to a state when it was determined that the GLO had completed it's tasks in that state. Here in Ohio, several lambskin volumes were turned over to the state in 1847, and the GLO-BLM or whatever it is now was done and gone. Since then we have had the records and our state laws and court decisions as the only authoritative sources for surveyors.

hmmm
I don't subdivide many sections. Most were subdivided 100 years ago. I use chapter 3 as a guide when the corner is lost. Other than that best evidence of the original survey of the interior controls. The original surveyor of the interior may not have left a paper trail and might not have correctly located the interior line.