New to this board but have been reading threads for a while. I have a couple of questions regarding the PS exam and the NY LS exam.
I'm not going to lie, I barely failed this the last time I tried it. Problem is, when I took it, it was the last open book exam. Kind of curious on how the PS exam is now since it's a closed book exam. When I 1st got ready for this exam, I studied of course but purchased the 50 question sample book for the PS exam. I blew it out of the water. Almost all the questions were common sense stuff. This thing made me think I was going to knock it out of the park, especially being a open book exam. I know how to survey, what to look for and how to solve problems. I've been working in surveying for a little over 10 years now with 4 years of college too. Mostly boundary with a little construction here and there.
So when I go to take the exam, I was perplexed at most of the questions. I was expecting something similar to the practice book and the questions being more about surveying related problems. But it seemed that most of the questions were asking about GIS, GPS, and Public Land Surveying System. Even with the books, I still couldn't get it. Since I live & work in NY, I don't have enough PLSS experience, or work with the GPS or GIS. 99% of my surveys are with the total station. It seems the longer I wait, the more technological this profession has become and is leaving me in the dust. I know if I took this in the 90's, it would've been a cinch. But now with everyone using GPS and GIS, it seems that these questions trump actual survey knowledge on how to solve boundaries.
My questions are....
1. have you taken a closed book PS exam? What would you recommend to study. I know my weak spots are as listed but I keep coming up with the same theory. If I don't know what the answers are with a closed book, how am I going to answer it now?? If the test has questions that are real survey problems related, then I have a chance. But if they still come up with questions like..."Who is allowed to file an official government survey map?" I'm pretty much in the same hole as the last time but worse now because I don't have experience working out west.
2. Also, with it being a closed book exam...are there any math related problems? I brought my calculator in but came out not even using it. Not one single math problem. I noticed that the reference page you can use is the same as the FS exam.
3. LS Exam review. I know NYSAPLS has a review course for both the PS and LS. My problem is, it's always 6 hours away on the other side of the state. I'm in Western NY and it seems they never cater to this side. At least have it in the middle of the state. Do you know if there are any other review courses not mentioned in the NYSAPLS site? Is there any online site that you can recommend to help me study for these two exams again?
Thanks.
Robert
Last year I believe there was a series of about 12 webinars on the NYS exam. I would contact NYSAPLS and see if they'll be offering them again.
Good luck
I recommend the "Manual of Instruction for Surveying of the Public Lands of the United States" as part of your study material and having an approved calculator with a cogo package programmed in. I can't make any recommendations for the State Specific portion of your exams other than any recommended study material by the State Board or the Professional Society.
Good Luck.
Texas study guide
http://txls.texas.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/sample_analytical_questions.pdf
There is a link to a sample exam from Texas, which is a closed book exam, I am sure New York would have a few questions like that.
Are you closer to another state that would have a review for the exam?
> Last year I believe there was a series of about 12 webinars on the NYS exam. I would contact NYSAPLS and see if they'll be offering them again.
>
> Good luck
WHEN did the NCEE quit using the Colonial PS test for states on the Eastern Seaboard? That test had NOTHING about PLSS in it.
I wonder if he got the Wrong test.
Never Assume An Open Book Exam Is Easier
Generally they are harder, because you do not have to remember anything except where? you can start to find the answer.
Paul in PA
Well Rubix, the only thing I can suggest is that if you have to even open a book for anything other than some stupid trig formula, then you are not prepared. Learn and memorize the states specific laws, that is all that matters.
MI - 1988 Open book. Never opened anything (8 hr test too) All essay and it was a bytch and I sweated bullets for my score.
AZ - 1996 Closed book 2 hrs multiple choice exam. Finished in 45 minutes
NV - 2007 Closed book 2 hrs multiple choice exam. Finished in 45 minutes.
CA - 2008 Open book. 4 hrs. Took the GLO book only. Notta. Talk about a lame butt test that has nothing to do with real surveying, so I didn't hit the pass score. Just as well for me.
Good luck to you. Learning the PLSS & all the goofy metes & bounds rules has to be a REAL challenge. NY is probably one of those states kind of in purgatory with both, so you need to know them both and then pick a niche. Focus on records research and P & Z laws. I won't mention Fed stuff like EPA and coastal weirdness - there a few NY guys here who know more than me. I stayed away from the Great Lakes in MI, and now the Colorado River. No fun dealing with agencies and you will not make any money.
1. Closed book tests generally aren't looking for nit-picky type things, just typical things that surveyors should know; boundary elements, subdivision rules, records research, etc.
2. Math might be reducing some level notes, computing a B-D from given coordinates, figuring curve info, etc.
3. Skip the review class, but buy the NYSAPLS LS Review Workshop Handout from the NYSAPLS Bookstore (in Pittsburgh, go figure).
Stephen, I'm not sure on that. I thought there was always alot of PLSS questions on the PS exam.
I got my NY license 3 years ago so I'll comment a bit...
I know nothing about the closed book test as, luckily for me, I never had to take it. I didn't find much math on my PS exam but there was a bit, mostly easier stuff than on the FS. NYS test had no math when I took it. I've heard (and this is just a rumor so I don't put much stock in it) that there are only 4 versions of the state exam. One is mostly tidal law (never saw this one but an associate did), another is mostly adverse possession (barely missed passing that one), there is one with mostly realty subdivision law and education law (passed that one easily) and then one more that I never saw. After my first time taking the state test and failing, I took the NYSAPLS review course. Take it. Make the drive. It's a great course and they give you a LOT of information that is bound so you can take it into the exam.
As for there being a "Colonial States PS Exam"...? Never heard of such a thing. My PS exam in NY had a pretty heavy amount of PLSS questions considering my location. Unfortunately it is a standard federal exam.
I, too, bought the "Prep Question" books for both exams. Maybe I got different books than you though as I found them to be pretty spot on, some questions being word for word the same. But as the technology is advancing they may be changing the exam I guess. There was one question regarding "Multipath" that was in every prep book I bought and also on both federal exams. There will almost always be a question on the NYS exam regarding the N exemption, section 7209 (IIRC) of education law.
I'm in the eastern part of the state but if you have any questions specifically, don't be afraid to get a hold of me. Not that I've got all the answers but hey, I was in the same spot you were in three years ago!
**EDIT** I didn't realize that the hand out material from the LS course is available for purchase now! Just saw that in the post above mine. If you didn't want to make the trip, this may be just as good of an option.
How will the State specific laws help him pass the NCEES PS exam?
Back when I was studying for the NCEE, 1990-1991, they had two tests for the second half. One was for sectionalized lands and the other was for Colonial states. It was specified when you ordered study material from them for the tests. At the time I was working on my 3rd license. It was for Oklahoma and I took the entire NCEE plus the state specific for it as my first two did not require any of the NCEE.B-)
Wayne
>
>
> MI - 1988 Open book. Never opened anything (8 hr test too) All essay and it was a bytch and I sweated bullets for my score.
> AZ - 1996 Closed book 2 hrs multiple choice exam. Finished in 45 minutes
> NV - 2007 Closed book 2 hrs multiple choice exam. Finished in 45 minutes.
> CA - 2008 Open book. 4 hrs. Took the GLO book only. Notta. Talk about a lame butt test that has nothing to do with real surveying, so I didn't hit the pass score. Just as well for me.
>
>
Got curious about your Arizona Registration and looked you up. You took your test at the same time I did. Our numbers are only different by 4. Yours is lower because of the alphabet.
small world.B-)
Wayne
I like that Stephen. We all know that we can run, but we cannot hide. I'm not here to BS, I like to share some of that stuff in my brain with others. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Sometimes nobody likes my opinion and/or get offended. Oh well. Only been at it for 40 yrs, so what the hey.... I still try to keep learning and this is the best place for geezers sitting in the office.
AZ is a cool place. MI economy tanked long before the national one did. I couldn't survive there, so looked elsewhere. Joined APLS, took my test, passed it, then my dream was coming true. Summer in MI, winter in AZ.... Check out APLS and I've been on the board since I moved here and been Secretary for 4 yrs now (am not renewing my nomination for me)
...except for just a couple problems, namely keeping up with a small uptick in work in my world there. So it took a few years. Then scrambling to find the 1) job, 2) the money to move.
Now I'm right back where I was in the economy, but am not scraping ice off my truck or shoveling snow. At least for now....news at 11 on all that too.
cheers my fellow AZ RLS'er
With all due respect bionic, the man specifically mentions the NYRLS exam. I don't think anybody qualifies for any state RLS exam until they go through a whole bunch of hoops (exams)
I'm not sugar coating anything here and hope he succeeds, I'm merely suggesting that it isn't a walk in the park or reading the footnotes from required reading material in class for your report. I don't think he was fishing here, just asking fellow professionals.
Western folks do not understand metes & bounds to it's fullest intent. Many Eastern folks do not understand the GLO (PLSS) and how it actually simplifies things. Here are the facts at hand and this is what you have to deal with, and with those facts they complete their survey. My guess is after the first bunch of them they have sleepless nights, no matter if East or West.
I'm from MI. I had to deal with both, and some sleepless nights. I "think" NY is similar in that aspect, but could be wrong. OK, fine. I just wish the guy the best of luck and hope he gets there.
His first sentence is PS exam and new York state. So, how does sticking with nothing but Sate help him on the PS?
I recently passed both tests in NY. Also being from Western NY, I can't stress how helpful the class that NYSAPLS put together for the state specific was. It was a Saturday and Sunday so I just got a hotel for one night, worth every penny. Since the NY test is still open book, the course also gives you a binder with a compilation of extremely helpful and related information.
Having purchased the 50 test prep questions, I also found some false hope thinking this was going to be the easiest test I ever took. If even 75% of the test was anything like those questions, that would have been a lot. I was very surprised at the number of questions dealing with the PLSS.
I was lucky enough to pass both on the first go around and I used the following materials:
Boundary Control & Legal Principles - Brown
Elementary Surveying - Wolf & Ghilani
Definitions of Surveying and Associated Terms - ACSM
Clark on Surveying and Boundaries - Grimes
Blacks Law Dictionary - Garner
New York Riparian Law - NYAPLS - Ayers
Control of Land Subdivision - NYAPLS
Legal Issues and the Land Surveyor - NYAPLS
Ethics for the Professional Surveyor - NYAPLS (Interesting read)
Adjoining Landowner Boundary Law and Dispute Resolution in NY - NYAPLS
Land Surveyors New York State-Specific Review Course - NYAPLS - Paiva
Other books I have found useful since studying:
Writing Legal Descriptions - Wattles
Boundaries and Landmarks - Mulford
I really wish at the time I had a copy of the Manual of Instruction for Surveying of the Public Lands of the United States (purchased right after), as the amount of PLSS questions on the PS exam was overwhelming.
Purchasing all these books (some I had from college) and paying for the review course seemed awful expensive at the time, but they are lifetime resources.
Both test combined was an extremely exhausting experience, and as someone who considers themselves a good test taker, I was unsure of my results when completed...
Study and good luck!
What I meant to say was: If even 25% of the test was anything like those questions, that would have been a lot.