I have been into scanning for 5 years now with a trimble TX5 but have found a lot of limitations with the instrument and processing software so i'm looking out for a new one.
I always scan with spheres because i don't trust and hate the processing times in Faro scene if i would apply cloud to cloud. The best solution for me seems to be the Riegl-VZ400i. I can place my rtk on top, no need for levelling, motion imu inside and direct registration in the field. Also long range and short scanning times (1min per scan) added this to my list of new purchases. A demo here at my office has taken every possible hesitation away.
Price is in and my accountant and bank are looking into this possible purchase. I feel like a kid who is going to the candy store for the first time.
I would take a P40. The Riegl 400 is nice for stuff like dumo volumes or scanning a put but the detail at 10m just wasnt there compared to the P40. The P40 doesnt have the range of the VZ400 but we do 70% architectural stuff and maybe 30% pits/stockpiles and we scan at 53sec scan times and do scans every say 40m so overlap is good. So we dont need a 400m range machine
But hope you are happy [emoji3]
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Make sure you anchor the legs down so it doesn't get blown over.
Does this mean you don't anchor your legs when they instrument is level?;)
[USER=10950]@RSAsurv[/USER] : i'm sure that i would have enough detail from any distance. If i need extreme details, i'll do photogrammic of the part involved.
What attracts me in this instrument is the speed of setting up, no need for control outside when using rtk-gps. Mirror behind protection glass and the ability to use a good nikon or canon camera for coloring.
The touch screen is large enough to do all manipulations without an external device. The Leica screen is like the trimble one, not good in my opinion. No fiddling with a plastic pen because the fingers may be too big.
The scanner itself is robust, no plastic, solid metal.
I would do a mix of projects : volumes, roads, high tension cables, facades, churches,...
The way this company works attracts me more than other companies. I'm pretty sure that newly released accessoiries will be possible with this one, it Will be a while before some kind of new replacement instrument comes out.
At a recent show in London they were the only ones who knew the instrument in and out. The other companies only supplied Nice costumes and ties.
Because of previous bad experiences with customer relations i would never buy anything from Leica although they have good equipment. I think they are shooting themselves in the foot with this blk360 thing. A lot of mystery for the release, no good info and everyone is waiting for their kit. My 2 cents
Can't you run both the P40 and the TX8 with a remote tablet?
I looked very hard at both of them recently and at least on paper they compare very favorably; Trimble may finally have caught up.
[USER=10950]@RSAsurv[/USER] : which resolution do you have at 53s scans? How far from the target is this taken? Is the positioning time included?
The noise is higher at closer distances by TOF scanners but only in affect when creating hi-res models. I'm not into statues etc so this doesn't bother me. The integrated imu works extremely well, also inside to position every separate scan. We tested outdoors and indoors.
If i would only do bim i would definitely look at another scanner but i can still use my tx5 in very narrow spaces if needed.
[USER=1128]@Lee[/USER] the leica with the tablet is useless. We tested and was mode cumbersome than productive
[USER=2245]@beuckie[/USER] the res is at setting 2 of 4 and set to 6mm@10m. Target distance is between not the issue. On area kf 50m x 50m we set targers at each corner at diff heights (approx 7 total) then sacn and register cloyd to cloud then fix to the control as surveyed with total station
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Good to know.
beuckie, post: 432611, member: 2245 wrote: I have been into scanning for 5 years now with a trimble TX5 but have found a lot of limitations with the instrument and processing software so i'm looking out for a new one.
I always scan with spheres because i don't trust and hate the processing times in Faro scene if i would apply cloud to cloud. The best solution for me seems to be the Riegl-VZ400i. I can place my rtk on top, no need for levelling, motion imu inside and direct registration in the field. Also long range and short scanning times (1min per scan) added this to my list of new purchases. A demo here at my office has taken every possible hesitation away.
Price is in and my accountant and bank are looking into this possible purchase. I feel like a kid who is going to the candy store for the first time.
I second the P40. We bought one last year and it is great! Super fast and bullet proof. It uses wave length and not time of flight, has built in noise filtering so 80% of noise is removed. (it looks for two returns from the same spot before it store a point) So on intersection surveys near all the cars are removed (if they are moving fast enough 🙂 and all the other garbage you normally have to remove.
We have never used the tablet, or laptop but you can operate it with one, I believe it used wifi and not bluetooth.
beuckie, post: 432840, member: 2245 wrote: [USER=10950]@RSAsurv[/USER] : which resolution do you have at 53s scans? How far from the target is this taken? Is the positioning time included?
The noise is higher at closer distances by TOF scanners but only in affect when creating hi-res models. I'm not into statues etc so this doesn't bother me. The integrated imu works extremely well, also inside to position every separate scan. We tested outdoors and indoors.
If i would only do bim i would definitely look at another scanner but i can still use my tx5 in very narrow spaces if needed.
I typically set the resolution at half inch at 30 feet and my set up are about 50 to 75 feet away. Takes about 45 seconds per scan with no photos.
And how do you guys scan in a coordinate system? With targets that have to be measured with total station or gps? Can it scan from a oblique setup?
beuckie, post: 432849, member: 2245 wrote: And how do you guys scan in a coordinate system? With targets that have to be measured with total station or gps? Can it scan from a oblique setup?
You can key the coordinates in at a later time (in office), upload a csv file, or GPS, zero azimuth, known azimuth.
I have not had much luck using an existing file as the scanner is too accurate and throws out GPS points. I typically set two points with a GPS for azimuth. Hold one as good and set up using a known azimuth. The P40 has a traverse routine in it and you can take side shots. Work great for topo work when you want to shoot in a property pin or additional control on the fly. In the traverse routine you can go around the site, turn a closing angle and adjust everything in the unit. When you import the file all scans are already unified and ready to go.
I do the same thing with the SX10; shoot in two GPS points and hold one for coordinates and the other for azimuth only. Then I typically turn angle sets to a third point and perform resections at my scan stations. Works pretty well.
We dont do any of that in the field. Takes too much time. We stick targets to walls,columns erc at discreet places. On stockpiles it typically doesnt matter where the dump is absolute,we just scan and register. If we do buildings we set some control by GPS,accept 1 coord and a long baseline azimuth. Subtract a nice constant from both Y and X and create a local survey system from that.
On a building done recently that was 11floors and each floor about 10 000 sqm, I set scan targets on each floor at corners of the building interior (about 12 per floor) and outside was 200 x 50m approx and I set scan targets around building (maybe 10 total for the exterior)
Building was 6 floor + 5 basements. Basements was largely open space so only set maybe 6 per floor. Trick was traversing down the spiral driveway going down 5 levels. So total maybe 80 scan targets for nearly 120 000 sqm of scan data
Modeled in Revit in about 4 weeks
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We have a P40 which is pretty awesome (it's really a PS40 which is the same instrument except it has a red sticker in the form of a shield with PS40 in it and the words Public Safety). It'll do a full dome medium density scan in a minute in a half. Photo time varies considerably depending on the settings you choose. You have to get used to the weird Leica software workflows including the typical Leica electronic bubble pauses which is really aggravating. Also the bubble is skewed or something, hard to level especially when it keeps pausing. Trimble has this (along with everything else) figured out.
I use an iPad mini to run it instead of the stupid awkward screen, that works seemlessly.
My procedure is to set it on a point, enter dummy coordinates, use my Silva ranger to get a dummy backsight azimuth on the first backsight. Then we proceed just like a total station, collect targets in view and scan. Move to the next, set up, backsight a known, collect targets in view and scan. Cloud to cloud isn't appropriate for most of our work and I never feel completely comfortable that it's a good registration. I've seen bad registrations with really good looking residuals.
We usually run through the control with a combination of total station and static and register the scans to that later in Cyclone which once you warp your mind sufficiently to understand it is very powerful. It is a pile of cr$p as a software product all sorts of conflicts make it crash but when it's working it's great. The latest thing is the Dell Backup and Restore Manager makes it hang up when trying to create a database, never was a problem before, suddenly it is.
On an area scan I usually register the scans autonomous then do a nested registration to control. On a more linear scan (such as a road or pipeline) I register each scan individually to control.
The P40 can backsight and foresight in both faces which helps tighten things up. It doesn't do set collection, just one set but it's a scanner not a total station.
The SX10 is on my wish list. It's slower but I think the efficiency gained in doing one setup instead of two will make the difference.
All the vendors have been here : Leica, Faro, Riegl and Z&f.
Here's a small summary of + and - from all the instruments
Faro
+ small, compact and light
- spheres still needed outside
- no imu but can be bought separately but after talking to others it seems a pain in the ***
- cannot measure to the range they mention in the spec sheets, or only a few points on a large surface
Leica
+ nice traversing routines
+ good scans also at range
+ screen can be seen even with strong sunlight
+ possibility to integrate istar instead of internal camera
- no imu and internal gps
-targets needed for registration in coordinate system
- separate target measuring needed
- plastic feel
-no possibility to place sokkia rtk on top
Z&F
+ solid package
+ good scanquality
- imu needs to be moved in a certain direction for positioning
- laserscout software and use of a tablet is slowing things down a lot
-data transfer from instrument to tablet is slow and not productive
Above three also need long scan times for average scans and need to be leveled for good registration
Riegl
+fast scanning
+best imu and no leveling needed
+quality of instrument
+registration on the fly
+use of sokia rtk possible
-heaviest instrument
-price
If everything wraps up it'll be the Riegl i'm going for.
Dave Karoly, post: 433021, member: 94 wrote: We have a P40 which is pretty awesome
Dave, what does CalFire do with the scanner? I'm assuming fire investigations?
I wonder what triggers this type of crime scene documentation? Death...$$ suppression costs?
imaudigger, post: 436427, member: 7286 wrote: Dave, what does CalFire do with the scanner? I'm assuming fire investigations?
I wonder what triggers this type of crime scene documentation? Death...$$ suppression costs?
Serious Accidents if the Incident Commander (I.C.) of the Serious Accident Review Team (S.A.R.T.) requests it (usually fatalities where mapping would be desirable or complicated scenes such as a Helicopter accident-no one was hurt except for the Helicopter or expensive losses such as Fire Engine burnovers).
The other big one is Fire Origin investigations where the Cost Recovery team needs help documenting the origin scene; usually powerlines but sometimes other causes such as arson. We have also done burnover scenes where civilians were killed not at the immediate origin. It varies. Haven't been called this year.
We occasionally use the scanner for data capture in our regular work too. We recently scanned a proposed quarry site where the Forest wants to quarry gravel for Forest Roads.
Understood. CalFire provides a great service to my county. Very well run organization in my opinion.
I just heard a status update for our county - 131 fires in 43 days!
