Just A. Surveyor, post: 439270, member: 12855 wrote: We DO NOT have free RTN here in Georgia.
Duncan Parnell (Trimble Dealer) offers it for $1650 a year and eGPS is around $1800 a year & Earl Dudley is in that range as well.
So 3 competing networks for under 2k a year..........would the Triumph LS still make sense?
2.5 years of subsciption fees would pay for the Triumph 2 base. The LS is a very strong performer on our network here in North Carolina but if a lot of your work is in canopy having a local base is so much better. Couple of weeks ago I had one corner to get in the woods. I thought I would try to get it using the network but after thirty minutes I decided to go turn my base on. I was able to locate the corner in about ten minutes. Base setup is almost no work due to the fact that I usually leave the base mounted and locked to the headache rack on my truck. I simply turn it on and start the base. I have linked the base to a jetpack for internet and have it set to automatically connect to the network so when I start the base it is using a fixed position from the network.
Just A. Surveyor, post: 439270, member: 12855 wrote: We DO NOT have free RTN here in Georgia.
Duncan Parnell (Trimble Dealer) offers it for $1650 a year and eGPS is around $1800 a year & Earl Dudley is in that range as well.
So 3 competing networks for under 2k a year..........would the Triumph LS still make sense?
Yes the Triumph LS makes since. Let Adam come by and show you what it is like. You will not be disappointed.
With that said I do whole heartedly agree with Nate. While the T2 and LS combo is the right fit for my business you need to demo a few options and see what makes since for you whether it is a Javad system or any of the other manufacturers out there.
I'm chewing on it.
Just A. Surveyor, post: 439096, member: 12855 wrote: How do you get support or repairs?
The box on a stick (Triumph LS) seems to be a data collector, GPS unit, and it appears maybe a magnetic locator in one unit, is that correct?
I want a rover to use my own data collector with a cell phone network corrected signal so which unit is capable of that?
I do not want a base & rover combination.
Years ago I broke a Javad Triumph 1, it has a long antenna that screws into the GPS unit, and also the range pole. Where the antenna screws into the GPS Unit it snapped off the broke the thread, and just need a new shell, and new antenna. We called Javad that day, they had us send it to repair it, the repairs were done quick and the Unit work just like new.
I had the antenna and unit mounted to the top of the truck, a gust of wind blew it off, not sure if it broke from the mount or when it hit the ground.
They did seem shocked we broke one of their units, however it was mine fault it broke, not a design issue, I think the repair bill was less that $500.00.
Just A. Surveyor, post: 439356, member: 12855 wrote: I'm chewing on it.
We make a Network Rover RTK system called LoTUS at very competitive price; check it out: WWW.GEOMATICS.US
We are based in Gainesville, FL.
Let us know if you would like us to arrange for a test drive of the system. We can demo the system in Georgia using the free FDOT CORS network.
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Tell us a little bit more about your system. Is it Chinese made? Has it got trimble Parts in it? Tell us what you know about it. I feel it is our duty as land surveyors to stay knowledgeable of what's available.
Nate The Surveyor, post: 439848, member: 291 wrote: Tell us a little bit more about your system. Is it Chinese made? Has it got trimble Parts in it? Tell us what you know about it. I feel it is our duty as land surveyors to stay knowledgeable of what's available.
Thank you for asking.
The system is made in Florida. The RTK / survey and stakeout software is developed in house. The data collector is a ruggedized 8" hp Windows 10 tablet that has: BT, WiFi, 4G connectivity, dual cameras, etc. The tablet comes with 200 MB free data every month (approximately 100 hours of operation in network solution mode/ 200 hours of operation in single baseline mode.) we are new with a few customers mostly in Florida willing to provide testimonials. Our biggest asset is our customer support. If you are in Florida or close by, we are willing to drive to demo the system to you. If you like it, we can leave it with you for a week to test drive. If you decided to buy, which I am sure will happen, we can work out an excellent deal for you. We will give you a 10 hr onsite training and a full year manufacturer's warranty. We accept trade-in up to $1,500. We ran a $500 coupon in the FSMS conference in July; we will be happy to extend it to your forum. So, you could end up with a full network rover system for $5,500 - $1,500 - $500 = $3,500, that is:
GPS/GLO L1/L2
20 Hz raw data
RTK
Hot swappable batteries (each last for 4 hours) for uninterrupted operation
L1/L2/L5 G1/G2 B1//B2/B3 OEM antenna
BT connectivity (SIM/SD combo also available)
... and more in a waterproof rugged smart antenna enclosure.
...Last week, the Alachua County Surveyor was worried when it started rain and asked us if they should bring the LoTUS smart antenna indoors! They were able to continue the survey being in the dry using the Bluetooth connection between the receiver and the data collector - no downtime whatsoever. Ask them about our customer service.
And, a 8" Windows ruggedized tablet on a quick-release bracket. All with a Windows-based data collector software that you use to survey, stakeout, and document (camera shots, .shp cad files, google maps, georef images, etc.) and very simple csv text project file.
Give us a try, the drink is on us!
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Just A. Surveyor, post: 439270, member: 12855 wrote: We DO NOT have free RTN here in Georgia.
Duncan Parnell (Trimble Dealer) offers it for $1650 a year and eGPS is around $1800 a year & Earl Dudley is in that range as well.
So 3 competing networks for under 2k a year..........would the Triumph LS still make sense?
I won't wade into the Chevy/Dodge/Ford argument (although order IS important LOL) but less than $2k/year for a network subscription is pretty good if you're in a state that doesn't have a DOT funded network already.
If you're full solo this point won't resonate but adding the network solution to our operation allowed me to double our GPS capabilities for the cost of 2 network licenses vs. the cost of another base/rover setup. Something to consider when weighing the cost vs. benefit aspect of buying new gear.
Do you know what core coordinate system you are working with? I started out strictly using plane geometry. (tds) Then, Lat lon was added to it, so it sorta worked with real earth coords. But, it started out as "flat earth" thinking. I think that most of the TDS (Now Trimble) data collectors are flat earth, WITH lat lon added. But, I don't know that for sure.
Now, I get to use a system, that uses Lat Lon at it's core. Everything else you see in it, is via a projection, with parameters.
This sort of thing intrigues me.
N
Nate The Surveyor, post: 439866, member: 291 wrote: Do you know what core coordinate system you are working with? I started out strictly using plane geometry. (tds) Then, Lat lon was added to it, so it sorta worked with real earth coords. But, it started out as "flat earth" thinking. I think that most of the TDS (Now Trimble) data collectors are flat earth, WITH lat lon added. But, I don't know that for sure.
Now, I get to use a system, that uses Lat Lon at it's core. Everything else you see in it, is via a projection, with parameters.
This sort of thing intrigues me.N
Hey Nate, I can answer this question since I taught GPS and geodesy courses for over two decades. I also developed the G1-LoTUS software.
There are two fundamental algorithms to process GPS pseudo ranges: the first is to use the satellite orbit native coordinate system that is Earth-Centered Earth-Fixed, and the second is to use a local geodetic (tangential) coordinate system that is fixed at an arbitrary point; it is not Earth centered but rather topo-centric. Make no mistake, the latter is NOT a projected coordinate system, like the state plane coordinate system or the Universal Transverse Mercator (UTM). Each algorithm has its pros and cons, but you reach the same solution for the surveyed point, be it it's ECEF XYZ coordinates or its topocentric/geodetic coordinates of latitude, longitude, and geodetic height. The two sets of coordinates are interchangeable mathematically in the same datum through an exact conversion formula - no transformation approximation!!
Once you have either XYZ or LLH, you can project the point onto a planar or a to-become-planar surface like a cylinder or a cone and obtain the point coordinates in such a plane. The end result of the projection is two planar (usually horizontal) coordinates, e.g. Northing and Easting; height has to be obtained from the third dimension, e.g. the plumb line or gravity direction through some leveling process such as spirit leveling or in our case it would be GPS leveling.
That said: our LoTUS software allows the user to output surveyed point coordinates in one of the following coordinate systems:
1. ECEF XYZ Cartesian / Geocentric coordinates
2. Latitude, Longitude, and height in a specified datum and ellipsoid
3. US State plane coordinate system in one of the 100+ zones
4. Universal Transverse Mercator system defined according to its zone
5. Local Geodetic baseline segments, e.g. dn, de, dh (these are not projected but rather on the ellipsoid)
6. Moving baseline components for mobile applications
The map component of the LoTUS software uses a projected coordinate system. In displaying inverse values between points, the software shows scale factors and conversion of meridians (or rather the grid north deviation) at every segment.
Hope this helps and orry if this was too much jargon!
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John Evers, (above) is quite knowledgeable of these things... I have dreamed of a mechanism, to escape from plane trig, and to actually do "round earth" (ellipsoidal for you purists!) But, it's not been there for me... So, I'm doing what I can with what is... such as what you are doing.
Anyway, I predict that someday, we will ALL have mini robots, mounted on prism poles, with TINY gps on top, with the ability to set a cell phone on the prism pole, (a separate pole) as a "backsite" for the robot. And, that the robot, and GPS together, will weigh less than 4 LBS, and that we will be able to solo survey anything, in real time, at the same rate, as a 3 man crew, with GPS, and Robot, can today. (And with a similar accuracy).
I spoke with a colleague recently, who has an R-10 unit, mounted on a robot, and with a 3 man crew... they are staying busy. (govt contracts with Hwy Dpt are making them bread and butter). It works for them.
Life is not static, nor is technology. I literally wonder... will we someday BUY a survey from a surveyor, online. Use credit card to pay for it. And, the SURVEYOR sends us back the LINEWORK, in to our cell phone. And, we use our cell phone to walk the perimeter, and if we like, accuracies are comparable with what we have today... (Realtors will still be looking for a way to get it for free....!)
Anyway, I like Technology. I am a chronic tinkerer. When I see a mountain, I wonder how many VOIDS it has, (caves) and if they are livable. I wonder how many buried treasures there are, if we could see them.
Up here, we HAVE to have our own base station. We can use OPUS, (Opus is clumsy, and not streamlined) Or, as the Javad guys have discovered, DPOS is slick. But, it won't stay the same. It is always moving on. Ride, or get left behind... At least that's what I can see.
Nate
Jim Frame, post: 439230, member: 10 wrote: Does this mean that the J-Field total station controller project has been shelved?
Support for total station stakeout and for manual entry of total station data is still going to be added.
Matt, if the jfield software were put into a tablet pc...
Then we could do graphics, and cogo, from the same database, as the ls.....
And ts controllers could be there too...
I'd like that...
Shawn Billings, post: 439186, member: 6521 wrote: I won't tell you that you are wrong. You're the best person to make the decision on what is right for your business. But I'll share a few things for you to consider so that you can make an informed decision. (I'll try to keep this short and not write a book).
Conclusion:
I get that the box on a stick approach is unconventional. I'm a surveyor and all of the questions you and other surveyors are asking, believe me, I asked them too. After a couple of weeks of use, I found myself never wanting to return to a 2-meter pole with a data collector hanging of the side getting tangled on every effing vine, briar and limb in the effing woods (trying to keep it PG here). I also never want to go back to RTK without DPOS. The post processing is just that good. And I never want to go back to a data collector that makes me manually prove out my points in difficult places by trial and error.
I snipped most of the book out 🙂 Shawn, that was good and as a 23 year user of Leica GPS gear you have made a good case for converting me to a Javad user 🙂
Regardless of brand, my situation as I bet most do, requires a base/rover setup at least some of the time. Sure I like using a RTN (for convenience sake), BUT there are just way too many times where either I am not within the RTN or outside of communication in remote hilly area. The last two projects I have worked on were non starters for RTN even though we have a good FREE one in Oregon.
The LS would be a very good tool to use on the current project, using a base rover, but am foregoing even trying some of the treed locations for setting control in open and traverse, if the LS works as good as I am hearing, could save a lot of work.
Leica 1200 system I currently have will be 10 years old in November, it is still a good system and has been a work horse, but the LS in the trees is a real game changer.
Does Javad have an office software package for post-processing and exporting data for control reports?
SHG
Shelby H. Griggs PLS, post: 440203, member: 335 wrote: Does Javad have an office software package for post-processing and exporting data for control reports?
http://www.javad.com/jgnss/products/software/justin.html&apos ;">Justin is Javad's post-processing and project management product, but I have no experience with it.
Shelby,
One of the concepts of the LS is that you do not need any external software. Static processing and report generation are directly handled by the LS.
Shelby H. Griggs PLS, post: 440203, member: 335 wrote: Leica 1200 system I currently have will be 10 years old in November, it is still a good system and has been a work horse
I recently upgraded my 1200 network rover to a Leica GNSS Viva system and LOVE it. I rarely pull out my robot. I'm doing mainly small boundary work and a little topo. I'm finding corners in canopy and being right on top of my calc'd position. We're either both wrong or my GS12 is working great!
John Evers, post: 440225, member: 467 wrote: Static processing and report generation are directly handled by the LS
This only pertains to data gathered by a single base and rover, and processing controls are limited. I believe Shelby was asking about a robust network processing application.
I am encouraged to hear reports like RADAR's above, that he is in love with his Leica GS 12. It seems to me that more and more GPS MFR's are making better gear. I think it's a good trend. I happen to have bought Javad Gear, but ANYTHING that improves quality, is good for the profession in general.
Here is a pic of some of my work. If you go over to the Javad forum, there is a thread called https://support.javad.com/index.php?threads/post-pics-of-difficult-shots.1643/page-6
This thread has more replies, than any other, on the Javad forum.
I got 2 shots here, over about 12 mins of time. 0.05' apart.
Yup. Fully verified.
This means it has around 10+15 independent fixes, over a period of time, and your certainty is in the range of "Parts per million". You do get a little loss of accuracy, in the woods... a few hundredths. but, hey, at least we are not chopping line, and toting a total station, and all the rest of it. Instead, we are listening to birds, searching for stuff, while the GPS clicks away.... It's surveyor heaven! (nearly)
🙂
N
Shelby H. Griggs PLS, post: 440203, member: 335 wrote: I snipped most of the book out 🙂 Shawn, that was good and as a 23 year user of Leica GPS gear you have made a good case for converting me to a Javad user 🙂
Regardless of brand, my situation as I bet most do, requires a base/rover setup at least some of the time. Sure I like using a RTN (for convenience sake), BUT there are just way too many times where either I am not within the RTN or outside of communication in remote hilly area. The last two projects I have worked on were non starters for RTN even though we have a good FREE one in Oregon.
The LS would be a very good tool to use on the current project, using a base rover, but am foregoing even trying some of the treed locations for setting control in open and traverse, if the LS works as good as I am hearing, could save a lot of work.
Leica 1200 system I currently have will be 10 years old in November, it is still a good system and has been a work horse, but the LS in the trees is a real game changer.
Does Javad have an office software package for post-processing and exporting data for control reports?
SHG
Shelby,
You've already had some great answers. I don't use post-processing on a PC anymore. I use DPOS, which uses the same engine that the PC software uses "Justin". Actually, it also can use the top-shelf processing engine, Giodis, which is capable of processing extremely long baselines. Jim is correct that DPOS offers very little in the way of manipulating the processing, but I've found the automatic approach to be very, very good. I don't know that I could do any better if I had my own controls.
We've been very intentional about exports being performed by the receiver and not requiring PC software to convert a proprietary format into something else. So you can export dwg, dxf, ASCII points, shape, kml, and g-files straight from the receiver as well as HTML or pdf reports (which are really nice by the way).
When you get ready, give me a call. We'll work out a demonstration so that you can see if it will work for your needs.