Obliterated - defined

If the State has instructed by Statute, that the BLM Manual is to be used to reestablish the PLSS, then do not describe Obliterated again. The Manual, if called for in State Statute would trump any description the State could come up with. I see no Pro's, con's would be that where that term applies, it is well defined in the Manual. If the State wishes that term to apply to other monuments outside of the PLSS, then find a different term.
jud

> If the State has instructed by Statute, that the BLM Manual is to be used to reestablish the PLSS, then do not describe Obliterated again. The Manual, if called for in State Statute would trump any description the State could come up with. I see no Pro's, con's would be that where that term applies, it is well defined in the Manual. If the State wishes that term to apply to other monuments outside of the PLSS, then find a different term.
> jud

:good:

Idaho has it covered with reference to the manual already does it not?

IC § 31-2709
http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title31/T31CH27SECT31-2709.htm

IDAPA 35.01.03.006 (i)
IDAPA 35.01.03.218 (b)
http://adminrules.idaho.gov/rules/current/35/0103.pdf

It does, but they are trying to add their own definition of obliterated which will make a mess of things.

> It does, but they are trying to add their own definition of obliterated which will make a mess of things.

My point exactly. I have never received any justification for doing what they are doing. What concerns me, is considering the history of the definition since it was defined in the 1973 (and previous) manuals. The IBLA, in the Jacobson/Downer decision (July 1988), changed the definition and how it was to be applied. What would happen if the current definition was again modified by the IBLA (or a state or federal court) and Idaho was stuck with the proposed codified definition? This could create some confusion with the Manual/IBLA definition conflicting with the codified definition. Is our board going to start codifying every surveying term in the Manual?

The 2009 definition says "An obliterated corner is an existent corner...", do we now need "existent" defined in Idaho Code?

I always get frustrated with the drafting of state statutes or board rules that try to further define some of these types of things. The new language often times makes another aspect of what they are doing become more convoluted in a way that the drafters of the statutes did not think of. Micromanaging and refining such definitions also attempts to take away the professional judgement and decision-making of the professionals they are governing. If we pass our exams and have been "anointed" with having the appropriate professional judgement to determine the definition of a vague term, in multiple obscure situations, trying to redefine those judgement calls is kind of fruitless.

I understand often times what is being done in these scenarios (I think). Some surveyor ran across some work where another professional did something screwy and against good judgement (In the first party's mind). And they work on suggesting some new wording that would prevent that screwy interpretation of what the original rule or statute says. It is trying to govern one or a few from doing something stupid, but turns out causing more havoc for the responsible professionals and the goofball surveyors will keep doing the same thing regardless of the new statutes.

Okay...obviously I am ranting on things that have bothered me in the past and not necessarily addressing this specific instance.

Go get 'em Brian.

No worries Brian, I just heard the new obliterated corner definition was pulled from the Bill.

:good: :good:
Yep, that's what the email said.

I sure wish our licensing board would try and involve the surveyors (and the ISPLS) before they write and introduce new legislation every year. Who knows, maybe someday...............

I also read that email today. Glad they got that cleaned up.

Influencing legislators is easy. Getting them to actually understand what it is that they are supporting, or not, is a thousand times more difficult. Heck, based on many conversations on this board, we can't even communicate all that well amongst ourselves.

Idaho surveyors

Are any of you near Nampa? I'm not going to be able to make it, but, I should be attending a funeral there on Friday. This is for my cousin's husband. I've never been anywhere close to Nampa, so would like to go. Mid-Winter is a time when I need to stay close to home, despite important family gatherings such as this. Once I eventually get to Idaho, I'll need to go through Buhl and Twin Falls as well to meet a bunch of relatives from a different side of my family that I have never met.

Idaho surveyors

I'm North of Nampa about half hour. It'll be close to 60 degrees on Friday. Heat wave. Twin is about 2 hour East of here.

Idaho surveyors

That will be great news for those able to be there. Mid-Winter funerals can be physically brutal to add to the emotional stress.

I'm from a rather small family and have only five first cousins and one sibling. I'm the next to the youngest in the group. This cousin is 66 and her late husband is 85. This is the first death in our little group of cousins and spouses. By comparison, my wife is only 55.

Idaho surveyors

Try to avoid the "State of Boise" unless absolutely necessary. The farther east or north you get from the Boise valley - the better Idaho gets. 😉
Let us know if/when you will be coming thru. I'm about 2.5 hrs from TF, but get there on occasion to see friends.