as a small business owner have I had the worst December since I began operating as a sole proprietor.
I have seen good times and I have seen bad times. I have had over 35 people under my employ at one time and I have had only myself with a helper other times. I have seen the ebb and flow of up turns and down turns in the economy, markets that have suffered and have come back. Never, ever have i been witness to this type of downward turn especially toward a decline in business and economic activity. Nothing is encouraging on the horizon.
Where is business so bad?
Same here in Northern New York...worse than the late 70's
Sorry to hear it gentlemen, maybe it will pick up for you after the first.
the way that I see the business of professional land surveying is that this is either a sign or an opportunity.
A year ago I said that the more surveyors that go out of business the more work to be had by me. But now, 12 months later, everything is dead and in fact worse than last year.
Maybe it's a sign that our chosen professional field is dieing.
Sorry to hear that. I hope things pick up for you after the first of the year.
A major key to making it in this economy is going to be education. Maybe not formal education (although that always helps), but learning something new. Buy a new piece of equipment, some new software, learn new ways to use the software and equipment that you have. Companies that haven't changed the way they do business will not make it. The world has changed and if you don't change with it, you will get left behind.
> the way that I see the business of professional land surveying is that this is either a sign or an opportunity.
>
> A year ago I said that the more surveyors that go out of business the more work to be had by me. But now, 12 months later, everything is dead and in fact worse than last year.
>
> Maybe it's a sign that our chosen professional field is dieing.
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness" Charles Dickens
Sadly, surveying has been and is suffering a double whammy, the "buggy whip" effect in the middle of a horrible economy....don't count on a robust rebound, maybe ever.
I started my own shift over a year ago..prefer to be on the "best of times" side of the coin.
2012 is shaping up to be a banner year for me, both professionally and personally. We are currently hiring for 2-3 RPLS positions. I suppose it depends on your market and what you are willing to do to realign yourself to a better market.
Things are looking up for me. I started a job in Houston in late Sept. Beginning Jan a client has a lot of work in the Panhandles of OK & TX and the surrounding area. With proposed work in NM and KS, I should be busier than a one legged man at a butt kicking contest.;-)
Andy,
Where are you working now? I see your profile says Ft. Worth, but I never caught the company name if you posted it elsewhere.
I see the biggest problems with this field are the lawyers/banks and ourselves. NO surveyor should ever do a mortgage plot plan for $140 or whatever the pittance is offered by the lawyers/banks.
The next problem is ourselves. I spoke with a surveyor the other day. We were talking jobs and numbers and every price I stated, he would retort "I'd do that for 60-70% of your quote." One for an ALTA was 35% of my price. He has no overhead working out of his home and I am part of a true business. We need to bond together and set our minimum prices up several notches, perhaps base our work on a percentage of the land value. But we should never be underbidding. If you could make enough money on ten jobs in a year wouldn't that be great? Perhaps then people would be interested in paying their employees excellent wages that would promote the field and our profession would not be withering.
My favorite along those lines was a subdivision. We quoted $50k and another firm quoted $5k. The client came back and asked if we could come down on our price, we denied. When the other firm had Change Ordered the project up to $80k the client returned and asked how much it would take for us to complete their work. We replied $50k.
Spledeus
You are partly right - IMHO
However, what really needs to happen is that legislation should be passed so that a survey is required for every government backed loan/mortgage.
And that an ALTA survey should be required for every commercial, industrial and for any loan in excess of $1m
People will pay us if the see a value in the money they are spending.
Think about that.
> the way that I see the business of professional land surveying is that this is either a sign or an opportunity.
>
> A year ago I said that the more surveyors that go out of business the more work to be had by me. But now, 12 months later, everything is dead and in fact worse than last year.
>
> Maybe it's a sign that our chosen professional field is dieing.
I'm in almost the same location as "the anonymous 6th" (I think he's in Denver, we're in Colo Springs), yet we're incredibly busy, while "the anonymous 6th" says he's dead.
Of course, we're doing much more work with fewer people, because we stay up with technology. So our company is smaller now than it was in 2007, but we're producing more. I don't think our field is dying, but it's definitely changing.
>
> However, what really needs to happen is that legislation should be passed so that a survey is required for every government backed loan/mortgage.
> And that an ALTA survey should be required for every commercial, industrial and for any loan in excess of $1m
Wait....all of a sudden, big government is a good thing????
Things are slow here. Actually had work to do today and then it rained.
Title companys here are now using Preliminary plot plan surveys for the final loan.
Work just keeps dissappearing. When there is work I'm being forced to compete with the guys who have full time jobs and survey on weekends. Had a builder tell me, Well we use Him because he has some bills to pay and he has a son in school, I told him, Whow that sounds just like me.
>> We need to bond together and set our minimum prices up several notches, . . .
A very unwise statement to make in a public forum.
Business is bad for the vast majority of the country and appears as though it will remain that way for quite some time. The real question is what do we need to do to fix it.
> >> We need to bond together and set our minimum prices up several notches, . . .
>
> A very unwise statement to make in a public forum.
Well Then -
I suggest we all charge % of the appraised value
Oh wait- That's what realtors do
We don't want to be like them
> >> We need to bond together and set our minimum prices up several notches, . . .
>
> A very unwise statement to make in a public forum.
Yep.
Instead, one thing that needs to change is this thought-process that leads to "I'll take a loss on this job, so I can hopefully stay in business and make money once things return to the way they were in the 90's".
But will that thought-process ever change? Most of the small-business owners I know are resistant to laying off employees, because they feel personally responsible to the people they employ. But on the other hand, things in our industry are incredibly unlikely to return to "the way they were in the 90's". So don't bank on that.
Net result: low-ballers.
Where does that leave us? "Setting prices" is not only illegal, it's unwise. Prices should reflect value delivered. "low-ballers" skew the picture by artificially lowering their prices below market value. But most of those companies don't do that out of a desire to "cheat others", instead, they're merely trying to survive, and doing it out of feelings like "loyalty to employees".
As always, we have contradictory desires. And going all-in on either side is a non-solution. Instead, we have to figure out how to best-balance the contradictions, so we get the most benefit to the most people. And that's not easy.
