Needing Advice Software and Equipment Combo

For the TS get a robotic. You'll easily learn fast, it's easy, and I promise you'll thank me later.

For GPS I would suggest the Spectra Precision SP80. 2 watt internal radio, has worked phenomenal in canopy for me (if it cannot get the shot it will not give you a false fix either), also works with Survey Pro or SurvCE.
Also agree on the robot over a conventional total station.

Just a few thoughts:

• EaglePoint is dead. Forget about that.
• GPS performance under canopy improves when you can pick up all the satellites available. GLONASS, Galileo, etc., etc. as well as GPS. That means that newer models will perform better.
• Hipers are rugged but the are heavy.
• Topcon robot motors turn slower than Trimble and Leica and they take longer to recognize the target. Just slower.
• Survey Pro dc software will do most everything you need it to, but it isn't very well arranged. Whatever button you need at the moment always seems to be 3 or more clicks away from wherever you are. That gets old fast. Ugh.
• Robotic really is the way to go.

pencerules, post: 368979, member: 709 wrote: (if it cannot get the shot it will not give you a false fix either)

Last summer, in a thread titled "RTK Experiment", I documented how I got a false fix from an SP80. Granted, it was under a tree where I had no business getting a fix at all. I was testing the limits, trying to see if I could get a false fix. But that did happen.

I would suggest the following.

GPS
Trimble R-10 with Access software. Also with a subscription to Trimble VRS network. It works ok in cover with the occasional bad fix. (Which of you pay attention you notice before you ever leave the site.)

TOTAL STATION
Trimble S-3 robotic with access software. I great robotic easy to use and priced decently. A major plus being the integrated surveying feature allows for switching from TS to GPS on the fly.

Office software.
Trumble Business Center and Microstation.
I know Trimble is pricey but the path from field to office to client is pretty seamless and worth the cost. Albeit I'm just a field guy with 15 yrs experience

Try to go solo x2, with a mutually beneficial association with each other. Business partnerships rarely work out.

Mark Mayer, post: 368984, member: 424 wrote: Just a few thoughts:

• Topcon robot motors turn slower than Trimble and Leica and they take longer to recognize the target. Just slower.

Not sure if this is still the case. The older ones maybe but the PS looks pretty fast. Would be worth demoing to see.

Totalsurv, post: 368994, member: 8202 wrote: Not sure if this is still the case. The older ones maybe but the PS looks pretty fast. Would be worth demoing to see.

The Topcon PS is my daily driver right now. I've also had recent hands-on experience with Trimble S6, Leica TS15, & SP Focus30. Before that I used Trimble 5603 for many years.

The PS is OK and I'll soldier on with it. But I don't think I'd buy one if I was starting up a new business. I really like the Leica hardware, accessories, and packaging. They need to work on their dc software. I really like the Trimble dc software, and the instruments are good. Now, if Trimble would just upgrade their packaging and accessories...

My former employer cobbled together nearly every type of equipment and software you can imagine. It was 12 years of beta testing. My takeaway is simple.
I will never buy Topcon anything, not even a pocket tape. Never again will I buy brand x gps, brand y data collector and brand z software. Spend the money and buy a trimble or leica complete package. You can make the patchwork quilt function, but the up front savings will bleed out 100 times over in time...

Mark Mayer, post: 368995, member: 424 wrote: The Topcon PS is my daily driver right now. I've also had recent hands-on experience with Trimble S6, Leica TS15, & SP Focus30. Before that I used Trimble 5603 for many years.

The PS is OK and I'll soldier on with it. But I don't think I'd buy one if I was starting up a new business. I really like the Leica hardware, accessories, and packaging. They need to work on their dc software. I really like the Trimble dc software, and the instruments are good. Now, if Trimble would just upgrade their packaging and accessories...

That's good to know thanks. Was planning on upgrading my Topcon GPT8200 in the next couple of years and the PS looked good. Will have to reconsider now.

I'm a Javad user. Its not the end of total stations, but it's close. Unless you have super heavy canopy.
For boundary work, it's the bomb. Thursday, I was in a bad hole. It was the e 1/4 cor. I shot it during a poor pdop period. I was on it for 30 mins. I stored it 5 times. The largest difference was 0,09'.
If I had done a bit of mission planning, I'd have been done in 10 mins.
I had the base recording at the 30" rate, or I'd have a great PPS Shot on it.

Totalsurv, post: 369000, member: 8202 wrote: That's good to know thanks. Was planning on upgrading my Topcon GPT8200 in the next couple of years and the PS looked good. Will have to reconsider now.

BTW- the Focus 30's were in the shop a lot. A lot. In the shop 2 weeks after delivery and shipped back the factory for service. The factory is in China. When they worked, they performed well. Except that they were coupled with SP Survey Pro dc software, which I like even less than Leica's VIVA.

The best thing to be said about Survey Pro is that lots of potential users have prior Survey Pro experience.

Regarding DC software I recommend Carlson SurvCE since it is easy to use, functional, highly arranged.
It gives you export/import for: DXF, DWG, XML, ASCII, TXT, CSV, etc.
If you buy a combo of Carslon DC & software will get a great deal.

Here is part B:
I'd take a course with Carlson software.
I'd get a good powerful, modern computer.
I'd get a good office space. I'd figure out how to store stuff, so that I could grab any file. Real fast. (Good file structure in the office)
I'd get a side by side atv. To carry it all.
If I decided to go the f2f route, with Carlson, I'd consider an early study of that data flow.
I know a surveyor that uploads linework into his field dc. He says he has completed jobs, with the only paper used was his final plat. And Bill. He said he can stake linework, without ever making a coordinate! I mean, going back, where he had worked before, designed another tract, staked it, went home, and drew the plat, without any additional made coords.
My slowest component is office.
One set of field equipment, can keep 2 surveyors very busy. I usually only spend 2 days a wk in the field. I can get more done with the LS, in a day, than I ever have, with anything else.

So just as a heads up, topcon and Sokkia are now the same company.
Topcons have and always will be tough as hell, and they retain that reputation today. The problem is that topcons have been cheaping out over the last decade when it comes to optics, and their data collection software is problematic to say the Least. Most people running robot topcons are running third party software.
Additionally, topcon robots (personal experience with 2 QS's with Carlson) are a bit 'glitchy' with data collector lockup about once per day, requiring reset, swapping out to new batteries and reconnecting. I honestly think it is related to low battery voltage.

I would see what the public services near you are running (cities/counties/highways) and weigh that with the sales and service available in your area. After all, it is unlikely your new competitors are going to give you a hand with your learning curve.

Incidentally, I have just accepted a job setting up a brand new survey department and am facing the same issues you are. The local options are topcon, Trimble, Leica, and Carlson (semi local).
I don't like the local topcon distributors (burned by them multiple times in the past), Trimble has an AWESOME sales rep, but if he is away, the entire rest of the company is useless, Leica has great local support, but would burn my entire budget, and Carlson, simply because their customer service and tech support remains the very best in the industry....... Plus, carlson's offerings are essentially, a gps VERY similar to a Trimble R10, and a recolored Leica TS15, both of which are top shelf pieces of equipment......

Good luck deciding.

Justin

With today's technology in order to be 100% compatible with least amount of conflicts it to best to match the hardware and software vendors of your equipment. So if you are starting fresh, and especially buy the latest gear. You should rent a few different flavors to decide what you like. I personally use all Topcon: Hiper V's, mmGPS, PS Robot, DL-502 all with Magnet Field and Magnet Tools. No issues with compatibility. So if you decide to go with Trimble, then stay all with all Trimble. I'm sure Carlson SurvCE is good for Topcon and Trimble, but even Carlson is selling hardware to match their own software.

Rich., post: 368973, member: 10450 wrote: For the TS get a robotic. You'll easily learn fast, it's easy, and I promise you'll thank me later.

How easy is to traverse through the woods, top through the woods? More specifically areas with alot of under brush.

Brad Ott, post: 368990, member: 197 wrote: Try to go solo x2, with a mutually beneficial association with each other. Business partnerships rarely work out.

Thanks for the advice, I understand what you mean. I should have mentioned we own two separate businesses together for the last 3 years (residential and multifamily rental properties, and a Laundry Mat). I believe we have most of the initial kinks of a partnership worked out, but a full time business will surely test our abilities to be open minded, agree to disagree sometimes and be thick skinned.

Nate The Surveyor, post: 369002, member: 291 wrote: I'm a Javad user. Its not the end of total stations, but it's close. Unless you have super heavy canopy.
For boundary work, it's the bomb. Thursday, I was in a bad hole. It was the e 1/4 cor. I shot it during a poor pdop period. I was on it for 30 mins. I stored it 5 times. The largest difference was 0,09'.
If I had done a bit of mission planning, I'd have been done in 10 mins.
I had the base recording at the 30" rate, or I'd have a great PPS Shot on it.

Ive been read your post along with Shawn Billings about the Javad, my biggest draw back is the data collection being at the head. Looking up/reachin up will get old in my opinion along with not being able run the rover pole up i want the ability to pop the DC off the gps and hook up to the TS and take what shots are needed, not put the data on a flashdrive and then dump onto a DC, an entirely new workflow is not something i want to learn right now (although introducing a new workflow would be easier during the start up phase. Another potential issue will be if the time comes when I need to collect positions on pipelines laying in an open ditch where getting in the ditch is not permissable. I too think JAVAD has potential just from what Ive read to be the cats meow but a few of their items that set them apart may be what hold the masses back from giving them a try.

summerprophet, post: 369018, member: 8874 wrote: So just as a heads up, topcon and Sokkia are now the same company.
Topcons have and always will be tough as hell, and they retain that reputation today. The problem is that topcons have been cheaping out over the last decade when it comes to optics, and their data collection software is problematic to say the Least. Most people running robot topcons are running third party software.
Additionally, topcon robots (personal experience with 2 QS's with Carlson) are a bit 'glitchy' with data collector lockup about once per day, requiring reset, swapping out to new batteries and reconnecting. I honestly think it is related to low battery voltage.

I would see what the public services near you are running (cities/counties/highways) and weigh that with the sales and service available in your area. After all, it is unlikely your new competitors are going to give you a hand with your learning curve.

Incidentally, I have just accepted a job setting up a brand new survey department and am facing the same issues you are. The local options are topcon, Trimble, Leica, and Carlson (semi local).
I don't like the local topcon distributors (burned by them multiple times in the past), Trimble has an AWESOME sales rep, but if he is away, the entire rest of the company is useless, Leica has great local support, but would burn my entire budget, and Carlson, simply because their customer service and tech support remains the very best in the industry....... Plus, carlson's offerings are essentially, a gps VERY similar to a Trimble R10, and a recolored Leica TS15, both of which are top shelf pieces of equipment......

Good luck deciding.

Justin

It looks like you have several options!. I live in a small town, the local agencies dont perform any surveys in house except for GIS collection (even those within 1.5 hours), and dealers are 3-4 hours away. Good luck on starting thew new department, sounds fun. Have you used the Carlson GPS?

Something else we would like the ability to be able to do is setup a ddf similar as we have used in the past with the Trimble Access. Basically anytime you take a shot depending on the code there is predefined attribute menu that you must complete before doing a final store. This is especially helpful when performing asbuilt surveys or surveys where there is a large amount of data is collected that would involve alot of note taking. Is this possible with Carlson software or Survey Pro. Example would be......

Code=WLD

• [INDENT=1]Joint # Ahead (enter data)[/INDENT]
• [INDENT=1]Joint # Back (enter data)[/INDENT]
• [INDENT=1]Wall Thickness (enter data)[/INDENT]
• [INDENT=1]Material type (enter data)[/INDENT]
• [INDENT=1]Heat # (enter data)[/INDENT]

I have not used the Carlson gps, but from the webinars, setting up the GPS each time appears to take about two to three minutes of data collector time. Wayyyy more steps than the Trimble setup I am currently using.
They DO have the new tech, of being able to store a shot with the rod up to 30* off level which is HUGE in my book (think GPS on building corners).

If you want the most seamless data collection with possibilities of high accuracy leveling, or scanning, or drones...... Trimble or Leica really are the way to go. They really do NOT play well with others, so if you pick one, stick with it. Of the two, Trimble's data collection is going to be more similar with what you are used to. Also, be aware, both companies now ding you annual fees for service, support and licensing..... Not a small amount either.

By comparison, Carlson is a small player, basically selling a 5 year old Leica robot, with their only offerings being a robot and GPS dome and a dc. But, their service is excellent (might be a selling point if you have nobody local to help you out), and they still offer free (top notch) tech support.

Topcon, as mentioned has problems, but if you wanted to go down that path, I would order from Hayes, and then you have access to their tech support.

If traverses through trees are a big part of your business, robots don't really shine in that department, but the good thing about a robot, is that is still can be used as a conventional gun. And then you are still productive for topo, if your partner calls in sick........ OR a year from now, you can invest in a second dc, and run robot and gps, doubling your fiend production. (User tip: topcon Bluetooth sucks gun to dc without the rc unit. If you are running conventional, buy a data cable)