Unfortunately, I've seen this situation many times over the years, at various companies I've worked at.
Having a family business sometimes is a negative because the kid always has a better part-time job than most of his friends who work at McDonalds or the local grocery store, and he never had to work hard to get it.
Then he graduates high school, and either slides right into a full-time job in the company, or goes to college, and always has the job waiting for him, that starts to look better (easier) than school.
I know there are a few success stories, and those who've done better than the old man, but I've seen too many business where every kid is leaching off the business, has no real interest in surveying or even dedication to the company. The old man is working and stamping plans into his 70's, and is forced to hire an outsider to be the stamp for his kids, so they can continue.
My grandson is looking like an engineering type and he loves maps but also loves the water. I have thought about pointing him to hydrographic working with companies like Fugro. Opportunity for travel and the other things he loves. But that fits for him. I know he already wants to travel but some people prefer staying in one spot. We can't answer the question without knowing what he is good at. Does he like sitting at the computer or does he prefer hands on outdoors. Is he a micro or macro thinker? (precision or building vs more general surveys) High spatial or mechanical aptitude? (modeling) Sounds like details and tedium may boor him, so something more related to systems? (aerial, networks, or GIS) My examples are off the cuff and don't intend to stereotype.
Construction experience is useless for licensing. Boundary experience is required for licensing.
Paul in PA
I've got a son floating in a similar boat, still a bit younger than yours, but very similar. I'm the son of a surveyor and because dad cleared a lot of rough ground for me, I've been able to develop my skills and knowledge immeasurably, and have a reasonably secure job with a well reputed company. I count those blessings most every day. It would be great if Jr., Jr., carried on the business, but I so enjoy my days, doing what I do, that I would never want him to do this unless he liked it and found fulfillment in it. Life is short. Definitely too short to do something you don't like. I've told both my kids that I desire their choice of profession be God honoring (secularly speaking: moral), provide personal fulfillment, and pay the bills. Just be willing to adjust what the bills are to be less than what your pay is. No Lexus purchases on Corolla wages.
I don't want to be offensive. The profession doesn't need Licensed Surveyors that aren't motivated to self educate. Education or Experience route, either one, both require motivated individuals who will pursue professional excellence. The attitude that your son has (and mine) does not exemplify professional excellence. Professional excellence is that midnight oil burning that leads to learning new methods, developing deeper understanding, honing legal knowledge, etc. Perhaps someday our sons will acquire this, or not. Until then, better for them to find an enjoyable occupation that requires someone else diligently directing their work. We've got plenty in our ranks that work for the weekend and I don't think the results are very compelling.
Sounds like you have very little confidence in your son that he has either the aptitude or the ambition to succeed, and that you're looking for the route that will take the least effort to get him over that "minimally competent" hurdle to be licensed. The surveyor who looks at the exam as a hurdle to get over will only be minimally competent on that one day that he passed the exam. Any time before or after that, he was and will be incompetent as a surveyor.
What advice would you give to an employee about career success? Maybe the first thing you should ask him is whether he really likes surveying or if he would rather be doing something else. Whatever his answer, your advice after that should be whatever it typically takes to achieve the first level of professional success and to keep building on his level of competence from there.
As to surveyors, even if it's not a requirement in the state they're working in, I recommend that they get a B.S. Degree in Surveying. If it's not a requirement and they have real obstacles that would keep them from getting the degree, I give them a list of books to study and tell them to block out a few hours per week to study those books, be a part of or organize a LS Exam review study group, bounce questions off knowledgeable surveyors, and learn to love learning so they will keep doing it even after they get their license.
If they come up with more reasons why they can't do any of that, I tell them to forget getting licensed until they're ready to get an education one way or the other, and to either find a different career or be satisfied with the job they have.
Coaxing your son to become licensed when he doesn't have enough desire to do what he needs to do to be a solid professional isn't going to help him. It's only going to invest him deeper into a career that he doesn't like. If he becomes a barely competent, or an incompetent surveyor because he thinks that's what's expected of him, he will not serve either the profession or his clients well, and stands a greater chance of being sued and/or eventually losing his license for negligence or incompetence.
Just be straight up with him about what he should do to become a really good professional surveyor. If that's what he really wants to achieve, he may surprise you and do what he needs to do and do it right. If he expresses an aversion to doing what he should do to get it done, let him know that he doesn't need to be a surveyor to fulfill your expectations. He needs to do and succeed at whatever career interests him. Otherwise, he should just get comfortable with the idea that he will always be the guy doing the calcs or setting the stakes at someone else's direction.
You can't succeed for him, nor can you make him do what he needs to do to succeed. Some things we each need to decide and do for ourselves. You concern yourself with loving your son and let him concern himself with making his way in the world.
Shawn "Just be willing to adjust what the bills are to be less than what your pay is." Brilliant. The key to life
Old Surveyor, post: 330050, member: 10297 wrote: Things are changing so much that I'm wondering where or how does a young man get training that is immediately applicable and relevant for today and several years from now?
This is a really good question that no one really answered. I had the unfortunate experience of obtaining a 2 year degree that is hardly worth the paper it is printed on due to lack of instruction and or incompetent instruction. Looking at future training I think the bar I would set for classes is that they are either from or are accepted by an institution that offers an accredited 4 year degree.
Shawn Billings, post: 330467, member: 6521 wrote: I've told both my kids that I desire their choice of profession be God honoring (secularly speaking: moral), provide personal fulfillment, and pay the bills.
The bit about being moral is key, I really appreciate that I never need to lie at work.
Old Surveyor, post: 330134, member: 10297 wrote: Night CAD classes are a possibility but knowing him if he can't use it immediately, he will tell me it's no use to him and quit. How many of you are familiar with the Survey Technician program or classes? I'm not. I don't want to push him into something just to find out it doesn't apply. He has years of boundary but now its construction. If I could get him to take one class or program what would it be?
Years of playing around designing and building speaker crossovers required knowing trigonometry backwards, forwards and inside out. I also designed and built the best telescopes you ever saw a planet or it's moons through.
Then I knocked up the wife at the time and needed formal employment, a consistent income. Started applying, but this was a majorly conservative town and I had hair to my waist I wasn't going to part with. I didn't know much if anything about land surveying, but applied at a local Surveying & Engineering Co. where the owner gave me a practice SIT exam which I got an 86 on, which would have been higher but I had no idea what a "rod" or "vara" or "league" were. So I was hired on the spot and I will be eternally grateful the man paid me to teach myself CAD. I didn't even know how to invoke the program, much less draw a line. And after a few WEEKS, when I did learn to draw a line I had no idea how to make the angle I wanted. At first I got out what he wanted mainly by copying and pasting a lot, and in less than a year I could out draft almost anyone.
Long story short, I took off when I got my chance. Dad was no where near and had nothing to do with it.
To answer your questions, I would say that with motivation and persistence a CAD course would be the best bang for buck as concerns your son. CAD can be used in many careers other than surveying. I am not familiar with Surveying courses but it seems to me that with CAD and trig under the belt a person would have a good start. But it has to be his decision and his motivation and persistence.
As I think you're aware, sometimes respect is the business end of dad's boot.
Since he was a young teenager my own son has been made very aware that he is totally on his own as far as career and education, and he's now 20 and in college with a steady job and his own kick a$$ car that he bought with his own cash money, all of it with no financial help from me or his mom. I have helped him by advising him on cars and the college bureaucracy as much as possible and driving him around to look at prospects when he didn't have a car, but that's it. I even made him pay for most of the gas. I am extremely grateful that he follows most of my advice and we do have constructive arguments, but I think the key is that we respect each other.
Hope that helps, or at least, that's my story and I'm sticking with it.
