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My first bad fix with the R10

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(@williwaw)
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Staking a?ÿsection line easement today, most of the route was fairly open but we had a 300' stretch that had some dense canopy. Took several minutes for the R10 to get down to a horizontal precision of >.1'. Had a bad feeling so I wanted to hit it from a different spot more out in the open and pull in to check it, but wasn't happening. Set?ÿa couple of lath on line out in the open to line up on?ÿand cut our way in to the stinker and sure as sheet that fix was a good 10' off. Of course I was pushing it, but that's what we have to do sometimes and it's all good, so long as I catch the stinkers before the trees start falling.

Carry on.

 
Posted : 16/08/2018 6:59 pm
(@jake1522)
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Did you have an r10 base going as well?

 
Posted : 16/08/2018 7:19 pm
(@skeeter1996)
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Do you ever have any trouble calibrating the ebubble with the T10? My range pole has been calibrated, but I'm having trouble getting the ebubble to match it.

 
Posted : 16/08/2018 9:17 pm
(@skeeter1996)
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Do you ever have any trouble calibrating the ebubble with the T10? My range pole has been calibrated, but I'm having trouble getting the ebubble to match it.

 
Posted : 16/08/2018 9:17 pm
(@jimcox)
Posts: 1951
 
Posted by: Skeeter1996

Do you ever have any trouble calibrating the ebubble with the T10? My range pole has been calibrated, but I'm having trouble getting the ebubble to match it.

Is your pole one with an adjustable brass screw-in adapter at the top?

We often find they get bent if the pole is dropped.

You can hold the pole vertical, but the R10 will be off kilter.

I've also seen the same issue if the pole has a bow in it.

 
Posted : 16/08/2018 9:27 pm
(@squowse)
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Posted by: jim.cox
Posted by: Skeeter1996

Do you ever have any trouble calibrating the ebubble with the T10? My range pole has been calibrated, but I'm having trouble getting the ebubble to match it.

Is your pole one with an adjustable brass screw-in adapter at the top?

We often find they get bent if the pole is dropped.

You can hold the pole vertical, but the R10 will be off kilter.

I've also seen the same issue if the pole has a bow in it.

What Jim said. The given process for calibrating the ebubble is to put it in a prism carrier and rotate.

This is all well and good getting the R10 exactly level. But any misalignment in the pole and threads will throw it out a lot.

I started calibrating with the pole in a known plumb position. (one method being sighting the top of the pole with a total station).

It's only valid for that pole and possibly will be different next time the pole is assembled. Suddenly makes the low tech bubble on th pole look like a great solution!

The Leica one must be affected the same way. None of the (very) clever electronics can know what is beneath the receiver. But the GS18T doesn't have a user calibration routine.

 
Posted : 16/08/2018 11:20 pm
(@jimcox)
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Posted by: squowse

Suddenly makes the low tech bubble on th pole look like a great solution!

Honestly the electronic bubble is mostly a gimmick.

It can be useful those few times when you can't see the pole bubble - but most of the time its a waste of screen space.

We are now purchasing our new R10's with the bubble option turned off - its just not worth the $$$ Trimble are asking for it.

Would be interested to try the new Leica to see if it is any better.

?ÿ

 
Posted : 17/08/2018 12:54 am
(@richard-imrie)
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Posted by: jim.cox

Would be interested to try the new Leica to see if it is any better.

?ÿ

https://surveyorconnect.com/community/gnss-geodesy/is-it-ok-to-talk-about-leica/paged/2/

Capsssure
 
Posted : 17/08/2018 1:16 am
(@squowse)
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I had a bit of a go and it was very impressive. Great for stakeout as you don't have to go through the "move the point, plumb the pole, check the distance to point" iteration.

Also could be handy for a point under a car, fence etc

Some muppets will not doubt use it to measure the corners of buildings. Seen a bit of this activity being promoted on Linkedin by Leica dealers.

I wanted to buy one as I love having good gadgets like these to streamline the day but I can't justify the expense at the moment.

I enquired about whether it would ever come to total station but the high update rate of the GNSS is the key to it working. The 1 Hz of typical total station doesn't cut it for the continuous correlation with the IMU. Maybe they'll find a way to do in the future.

 
Posted : 17/08/2018 1:26 am
(@john-hamilton)
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Only time I have?ÿ had a bad initialization with the R10 was when a very strong storm came up just as I was setting up.

CB 5 2

I was running my own base a couple of miles away. Doing Observed Control. It was off by 0.14 m horizontal, -0.13 m vertical. Wide open, no obstructions at all.?ÿ?ÿ

2018 08 17 075455

?ÿ

 
Posted : 17/08/2018 3:56 am
(@mightymoe)
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I had a tough time setting a 1/16th corner near a pine. It would let me fix but when I got close it would begin to drift. I would say that it wasn't fixed even if the screen showed it being within .10. Finally set some offsets and line points to check and the "fix" point which ended up being about .4' off.

Still there were plenty of indications that the R10 was giving me that the point was iffy.

I don't know of any point with the R10 I've ever located that was off when it has a good fix, the troubled ones seem to be easy to spot.

 
Posted : 17/08/2018 4:24 am
(@nate-the-surveyor)
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I've never had a bad fix with an R10.

?ÿ

 
Posted : 17/08/2018 4:34 am
(@nate-the-surveyor)
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I've never had a bad fix with an R10.

?ÿ

 
Posted : 17/08/2018 4:34 am
(@williwaw)
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Posted by: Jake1522

Did you have an r10 base going as well?

R8-3 running as base out in an open field with one 30' tree at 3:00 about 70' away. Have to admit this caught me by surprise as I've been amazed at how well this?ÿ unit has worked in high MP environments. I guess nothing is perfect. I've done enough rodeos to know when the conditions are optimal for something like this to happen and take some extra steps to check I didn't drop the ball by over relying on technology.

 
Posted : 17/08/2018 7:21 am
(@norman-oklahoma)
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Posted by: Nate The Surveyor

I've never had a bad fix with an R10.

?ÿ

Thread sidetrack. We all know how you feel about your "not R10" as a survey tool.?ÿ I'd like to hear from you how it has worked out as a business investment.?ÿ?ÿ

 
Posted : 17/08/2018 7:28 am
(@lee-d)
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Any receiver, including magic green ones, will give you a bad fix under the "right" conditions. I'm guessing that the situation John described above was due to vastly different atmospheric conditions at the base and rover.

From my experience, the R10 does a better job of letting you know you might have a problem than the R8 did.

 
Posted : 17/08/2018 8:18 am
(@aksurveyor)
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The R10 is great, with that being said, remember that the stated precision is at the 95% confidence level.?ÿ

Any rover is capable of a bad fix. The r10 just has less of them (at least the non-obvious ones). If you want to collect data on anything of major importance, like a total station control point or monument, use an observed control point then check it with Trimbleƒ??s known point initialization. That will confirm if your first initialization was correct.?ÿ

?ÿ

In in regards to the question about R10 investment value - most definitely worth it.?ÿ

I regularly use R10 RTK in an environment where the R8 would have given me trouble, including bad data.?ÿ

 
Posted : 17/08/2018 9:41 am
(@williwaw)
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Posted by: Lee D

Any receiver, including magic green ones, will give you a bad fix under the "right" conditions. I'm guessing that the situation John described above was due to vastly different atmospheric conditions at the base and rover.

From my experience, the R10 does a better job of letting you know you might have a problem than the R8 did.

Yes. This has been my experience after having used the R8-3 base/rovers for several years, the R10 is a significant improvement, but yesterday's experience was a reminder that?ÿthe R10?ÿtoo is no panacea and I don't see my conventional instrument being left behind any time soon. I've just been slammed working 70 hour weeks and to be honest I just don't see how I could have pulled off what we're able to get accomplished now without the R10. I'd be curled up in the fetal position sucking my thumb right about now.

 
Posted : 17/08/2018 9:51 am
(@lee-d)
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The last time I personally saw a bad fix was with a 5800; it told me I was fixed in a terrible environment but as soon as I started to move it threw it out. I have, however, seen some data come in from the field that made me wonder if they had a bad fix, but it's more likely that the R10 told them the precision was bad and they stored it anyhow.

In the old days they'd teach you to "dump" the receiver to make it reinitialize; these receivers today track too well for that to be a reliable method of checking yourself. The R10 has a handy dandy "Reset SV tracking" command (through Access) that forces a complete loss of lock. If I suspected a bad fix I'd move to a different location and do that, then stake back to my point.

 
Posted : 17/08/2018 10:32 am
(@makerofmaps)
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Posted by: Nate The Surveyor

I've never had a bad fix with an R10.

?ÿ

Is that because you haven't used one?

 
Posted : 17/08/2018 10:37 am
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