Mortgage Surveys

You don't close here without a survey. Basically no exception. Maybe because the high land value.

We don't do as many as we used to, mostly bc bigger outfits are undercutting prices and sucking all the jobs up and/or giving the title companies kick backs for the work.

But we still do plenty

Boundary "Mortgage" Surveys are still done in Florida for any property that is mortgaged. Although, they will substitute a prior survey with an owner's affidavit stating no changes have taken place since the last survey. I do them from time to time (usually for concerned buyers). Most banks, title companies and realtors want them fast and cheap (and occasionally free when the deal doesn't close). To tell you the truth, I don't know why title insurers don't just take the survey exception off the lender's policy and cut the surveyor out of the loop at closing. If you are in that business, the survey is just another obstacle that gets between you and your commission check.

Rich., post: 408676, member: 10450 wrote: You don't close here without a survey. Basically no exception. Maybe because the high land value.

Land values are also very high in Portland but I've never been asked to do one here. Nor in Vancouver, WA. I used to do them in the Vancouver, B.C. area at the rate of 5 a day, every day.

Mark Mayer, post: 408682, member: 424 wrote: Land values are also very high in Portland but I've never been asked to do one here. Nor in Vancouver, WA. I used to do them in the Vancouver, B.C. area at the rate of 5 a day, every day.

I've heard out west that Mortgage surveys are a rarity. Anybody know why? Also, in British Columbia, don't they have the Torrens system? If so, I don't know why they would require surveys being a more secure system title wise.

In California buyers are not liable for purchase money mortgages. I'm not sure what effect refinancing has on that protection.

I never heard of Mortgage Surveys until I joined the old RPLS forum about 13 years ago.

Bow Tie Surveyor, post: 408683, member: 6939 wrote: in British Columbia, don't they have the Torrens system? If so, I don't know why they would require surveys being a more secure system title wise.

They do have Torrens title, and that does simplify some of the issues. No adverse possession, no unwritten transfers, for instance. But you still have to tie out the improvements to show that they are on the lot. If they aren't AP isn't going to make it OK.

Dave Karoly, post: 408684, member: 94 wrote: In California buyers are not liable for purchase money mortgages. I'm not sure what effect refinancing has on that protection.

I never heard of Mortgage Surveys until I joined the old RPLS forum about 13 years ago.

So, in California, do the title insurers just remove the survey exception on the lenders policy and just assume the risk?

Bow Tie Surveyor, post: 408688, member: 6939 wrote: So, in California, do the title insurers just remove the survey exception on the lenders policy and just assume the risk?

I'm not sure how it works.

We have our own form of title insurance, CLTA.

Mortgage surveys in Montana are an interesting proposition, and one that I think has fallen victim to what I think of as a "Mortgage Survey"., which was a very casual survey, house on correct lot, any obvious encroachments etc.

Montana subdivision and platting act has an exemption from subdivision review specifically for "mortgage surveys". being
found in 76-3-201(1)(b) which states " subject to subsection (3), is created to provide security for mortgages, liens, or trust indentures for the purpose of construction, improvements to the land being divided, or refinancing purposes:"

aforementioned (3) states An exemption under subsection (1)(b) applies:
(a) to a division of land of any size
(b) if the land that is divided is not conveyed to any entity other than the financial or lending institution to which the mortgage, lien or trust indenture was given or to a purchaser upon foreclosure of the mortgage, lien or trust indenture. A transfer of the divided land, by the owner of the property at the time that the land was divided, to any party other than those identified in this subsection (3)(b) subjects the division of land to the requirements of this chapter.
(c) to a parcel that is created to provide security as provided in subsection (1 )(b). The remainder of the tract of land is subject to the provisions of this chapter if applicable.

Now it is my thought this Montana Code was to specifically protect the lender with out the land owner being subject to the expense of a subdivision review.
Yet the last two surveys I provided land owners using the above exemption have been rejected by the banks. The first time,the lady told me they no longer accept "mortgage surveys" , that the laws have changed and they no longer are allowed. I asked where this ruling came from came from and was told she was unsure, it may have been the Dodd-Frank bill, but she did not know, they just don't except mortgage surveys. I checked with another lender and I was told yes they still accepted them. A second client asked later asked for a survey to obtain a loan for the house he was building on his land and his lender (the second lender) mentioned above. I thought a survey using the said exemption was good to go, only to find lender two was now no longer accepting these surveys. When I spoke with him, what he told me is that the large lenders prefer not to lend on construction loans to individuals, and he thinks they companies are using this as an excuse.

Now I am totally confused, and haven't had any luck in speaking with fellow surveyors as to whether of not they have had the same experience. I believe the Montana laws have been confused with the dratted Mortgage Survey of yore.

Hermansen is correct about one thing: the buyer is the main beneficiary of a Survey.

Title Insurance Companies take on risk in exchange for money, they can take on the location risk or the lenders can choose to take it on. They are involved in millions of properties so the risk is very small.

But the buyer usually has one house and they are personally involved with the neighbors. The lender doesn't care as long as the payments are made.

A professional delivers valuable information for a fee, not insurance.

Haven't done one in a long time. Can't remember how long it has been. I'm not sure why this has happened. Never really liked them in the first place, so I suppose that's why I hadn't been missing them.

Knud confuses me with his numbers.
Page 2 he goes into a bunch of assumptions to obtain:
At this point, we have 1 out of every 100 properties or 1% of the mortgaged property with substantial title defects that could have been discovered by an accurate survey.
Page 3 he jumps to
Going back to the example again, it appears reasonable to state that only 0.5% of the serious title defects will result in the buyer refusing to pay on the mortgage.
How did he get there?

Bow Tie Surveyor, post: 408683, member: 6939 wrote: I've heard out west that Mortgage surveys are a rarity. Anybody know why? Also, in British Columbia, don't they have the Torrens system? If so, I don't know why they would require surveys being a more secure system title wise.

There is no such thing in WA or ID. I would estimate 90% or more of all sales around here happen without a survey.

I remember working in New Mexico, we would do mortgage surveys where a portion of a larger parcel was mortgaged usually with a new home or mobile home but was not considered a division of land. It was an exemption to subdivision regulations. I believe it became an exemption because of the abuse by lenders who upon default were taking the entire parcel worth much more than the loan.

I have done a lot of these over my career, both when working for others, and when working for myself. They have been referred to as lot surveys, lot final, etc. They have always been a full blown boundary survey on every one I have ever been involved with.

They have kind of gone by the way of the dinosaur in Minnesota and Wisconsin, which doesn't bother me one bit.
A survey is not required with real estate transactions here and that's the way it should be.

"...the buyer that walks away from the mortgage still has to rent or pay for housing someplace else."

In Maine it takes years for foreclosure proceedings to complete. I know of one family in town who stopped paying their mortgage in 2009 and stayed in the house until they were finally evicted in 2013.

None done in AZ

We quit doing them unless they are in a subdivision we did. When I bought my house in Ohio the bank had one done and was at a scale of 1" = 30' +-. Several years later my neighbor informed me his drive was over the line about a foot. I didn't really care then and still don't, but it never made it's way onto the drawing.