I am working on a survey that has an Interstate crossing one side of the property. There is about 1000' of frontage on the interstate. I have been to the Register of deeds and there are no plans recorded, (this is an interstate, for pete sake). I go to the DOT and meet with a fellow, who goes thru the plans in that area for that Interstate and guess what no plans! There are fences that I have located and a r/w monument but the Interstate is in a curve in that area. How do I match that with no stinking plans?
If you chase the title back far enough you should run into the deed where DOT acquired the property for the interstate. If NC is like TN, it's nearly impossible to make sense of the deed without benefit of the plans but you might pick up the curve radius if nothing else.
Got a title search? No conveyance in it? If not, I would document my due diligence w/DOT, hold a small offset from the fence, label it as "occupied HBL" and move on.
Stephen Ward, post: 382791, member: 1206 wrote: If you chase the title back far enough you should run into the deed where DOT acquired the property for the interstate. If NC is like TN, it's nearly impossible to make sense of the deed without benefit of the plans but you might pick up the curve radius if nothing else.
I have the document, Its not much help although it gives a width. No mention of curves. The local dot guy contacted the main office in Raliegh. Maybe something will turn up.
Sergeant Schultz, post: 382792, member: 315 wrote: Got a title search? No conveyance in it? If not, I would document my due diligence w/DOT, hold a small offset from the fence, label it as "occupied HBL" and move on.
Yeah I have the title search, the document is okay and if I had the plans I could tie it down. The fence has some jogs in it that are throwing me off too. What's HBL?
Adam's deed for the ROW may be a like a lot that I've seen here. "Being 100 feet (or 150 or whatever) left o.f centerline beginning at station 100+00 and ending at station 201+27.46 as shown on plans of Project XYZ".
No problem if you have the plans but without the plans it would be a ROYAL PIA.
Andy
Andy Bruner, post: 382806, member: 1123 wrote: Adam's deed for the ROW may be a like a lot that I've seen here. "Being 100 feet (or 150 or whatever) left o.f centerline beginning at station 100+00 and ending at station 201+27.46 as shown on plans of Project XYZ".
No problem if you have the plans but without the plans it would be a ROYAL PIA.Andy
Exactly right.
Did you talk to the correct folks at the DOT like the R/W surveyors or the R/W acquisition folks, both of whom should have or know how to access the records? I can't believe the DOT wouldn't have "as-built" drawings of the highway...
BajaOR, post: 382809, member: 9139 wrote: Did you talk to the correct folks at the DOT like the R/W surveyors or the R/W acquisition folks, both of whom should have or know how to access the records? I can't believe the DOT wouldn't have "as-built" drawings of the highway...
Surely you jest.....A bureaucracy work efficiently and not lose anything important? When the senior citizen who has run the map room at the regional TDOT office for probably the last 40 years is gone, I may never be able to get ROW plans again. Lose one employee like that and the system never recovers.
BajaOR, post: 382809, member: 9139 wrote: Did you talk to the correct folks at the DOT like the R/W surveyors or the R/W acquisition folks, both of whom should have or know how to access the records? I can't believe the DOT wouldn't have "as-built" drawings of the highway...
Yep, talked to the district engineer and then the RW office man (not sure of his title). He is checking with the main office in Raliegh. I hope that have something. Whats wierd is the Interstate was in several different projects in that area, He had plans for North and South of the project.
The road in front of my property was a county road, then it became a state road. County says they gave plans to the state, state says they never got them. Tried several times at both agencies. The district DOT office is pretty good, they have a "map" person who usually knows where everything is.
My deed goes to the center of the road, but it has been realigned/widened since then.
HBL = Highway Boundary Line.
The state DOT should fix it on their dime; there is NO WAY that ANY private entity should have to attempt to fix this at one's own cost!! (and I work for a DOT...) unless they agree to pay YOU to fix it.
The only superior evidence is that which you haven't yet found.
Sergeant Schultz, post: 382792, member: 315 wrote: hold a small offset from the fence, label it as "occupied HBL" and move on.
Adam, post: 382805, member: 8900 wrote: What's HBL?
Hell Breaks Loose
Tell the guy to start building a fence about 20 feet off the edge of pavement. I bet those plans will appear then.
Plans are usually in the District or Regional office and State office.
This being an Interstate, they would also be located in Federal office.
Keep climbing the ladder..........:8ball:
In my case I would contact the State office of the DOT. In this case, I would start with the Bureau of Right-of-Way or whatever term they use in your State. My experience with our people is that they are super to work with and will do pretty much everything within their power to fix you up ASAP.
Adam, post: 382786, member: 8900 wrote: I am working on a survey that has an Interstate crossing one side of the property. There is about 1000' of frontage on the interstate. I have been to the Register of deeds and there are no plans recorded, (this is an interstate, for pete sake). I go to the DOT and meet with a fellow, who goes thru the plans in that area for that Interstate and guess what no plans! There are fences that I have located and a r/w monument but the Interstate is in a curve in that area. How do I match that with no stinking plans?
Seems like I remember from way back, that all Federal Highways including Interstate plans were under approval/design standards by the Bureau of Public Roads (BPR). You might try that route to locate these plans.
Adam, can you email me the information. I will see if I can help.
Stephen Ward, post: 382810, member: 1206 wrote: Surely you jest.....A bureaucracy work efficiently and not lose anything important?.
I'm spoiled her in CA I guess. Caltrans has been quite good in the "records department". Your comment exposes one weakness in the system of using a reference to construction plans as the description of the footprint of the rights acquired. Maybe your public records system has a place for miscellaneous maps, or even for Highway Maps, where the plans could be filed for public review at the same time as the R/W deed gets filed.