I think Mr. Lucas likes to 'shock' surveyors into trying to think more about whether they should accept ownership evidence and uncalled-for markers they might find.
Still you gotta-wonder how some "Lucas followers" would handle finding those spikes that Stephen Innis instructs from the "How to survey boundaries" thread.
Anyone who thinks that strict staking by coordinates, or strictly accepting anything they find in the ground, needs to think things through a little more in my humble opinion.
You try to figure the purpose for Lucas' belligerent attitude toward the surveying profession. Whether he makes you think or shocks you into thinking is beyond my interpretation. He is simply hostile and if he were my attorney I would fire him. I need an attorney on my side, not an antagonist. If I were asked for an opinion on who is an attorney and land surveyor I would think of Knud Hermansen as a much better example.
Pablo
Remember he asked if anyone of us had ever surveyed a "virgin" section, lol;-)
> I think Mr. Lucas likes to 'shock' surveyors into trying to think more about whether they should accept ownership evidence and uncalled-for markers they might find.
>
Yes it is just his style, and like it or not, the probability of Lucas changing his style is about as likely as McMillan changing his.
Having attended several of his presentations and reading a bunch of his writings, I believe he does it for a good reason. I have previously posted examples of writings of "experts" that do need to be questioned. As you know, some people need to be "shocked" to get their attention and to wake up (it certainly helped me). Those that do not, maybe need to focus more on what is being said and less on the "shock" value.
> Still you gotta-wonder how some "Lucas followers" would handle finding those spikes that Stephen Innis instructs from the "How to survey boundaries" thread.
>
The obvious answer is that Lucas (and others) fervently advocate NOT blindly accepting or rejecting any "stobs" found. He (and others) advocate thoroughly investigating the origin, source, placement, relation to other known corners, and reliance (among other factors). I think, and I'm sure you will agree, that far too many surveyors only look at the data collector screen to see if the monument should be accepted or not, or accept anything they trip over that happens to be in the vicinity of the corner; neither are providing a lawful or professional service.
> Anyone who thinks that strict staking by coordinates, or strictly accepting anything they find in the ground, needs to think things through a little more in my humble opinion.
Amen, and true dat!!
Lucas' Survey Education
> ....is NoName State University .. ICS demonstrably inferior? Is Lucas?
I think that it just shows that, as a surveyor, he puts his pants on one leg at a time like the rest of us.
> You try to figure the purpose for Lucas' belligerent attitude toward the surveying profession. Whether he makes you think or shocks you into thinking is beyond my interpretation. He is simply hostile and if he were my attorney I would fire him. I need an attorney on my side, not an antagonist. If I were asked for an opinion on who is an attorney and land surveyor I would think of Knud Hermansen as a much better example.
I think of the old adage, "it's easier to catch more bees with honey than vinegar."
Yes, Knud's writings are better to me too.
As far as Lucas is concerned, I've been to his seminar several years ago, and like the comments that Pablo posted, found him to be lacking as a surveyor and wrong on several points with regard to surveying in Texas.
While he may think he's using shock value for what he believes is a good purpose, I just think he's a typical lawyer. Aside from the surveying missteps, putting the profession down will eventually rid him of listeners.
ICS
How much boundary law were you taught? Did you actually have dialogue with your instructors? Who were they? What was the curriculum? What were the courses?
These are fairly common questions for any prospective student to ask. They are not readily apparent when reading the website.
I have attended numerous presentations over the years. The hot air types are a little more antagonistic for style first, substance second. They want to engage the audience and hopefully make them think. Some are better than others.
But I think most of all, they want to be invited back for return engagements, if you know what I mean. Let's face it, CEU classes that are informative and entertaining are few and far between.
Personally, I'd rather sit in on Lucas and get pissed off rather than falling asleep on some other lame presentation. But this is not an endorsement of Lucas by any means; there are not many good presentations anymore. Just a lot of retreaded material.
I find Lucas' writings disturbing. As a relatively young and freshly licensed surveyor, I suppose I am susceptible to his doom and gloom of the surveying profession. Has he ever written anything positive about our profession?
It's refreshing to read some different prospective on his opinions.
Lucas is a $hat stirrer. That is one way that columnists and seminar presenters do to become successful. This is how his opinions become enhanced in the eyes of others. Yes, it doesn’t take much observational skills to see the profession is a rapidly aging demographic. That does not mean that it will become extinct.
One of the things that I really do not like about his ‘vision’ of surveying is that he labeled surveyors as ‘expert measurers” and “deed stakers”. He simplified his arguments by ignoring the wisdom of members of the profession. He created stereotypes to make himself look intelligent while ignoring others. That is the arrogance that some have noticed in him. His ‘status quo” smoke is tricky also. Should surveyors start consulting with fence builders to see how they attained the boundary decision to maintain the status quo?
I see nothing wrong with his surveying educational background. I have known surveyors who went the ICS route and they are good surveyors who sought an available means to educating themselves.
It is interesting that his subsequent educational pursuits were degrees in business and then Alabama law. If I was an Alabama surveyor, he would be a great resource.
