Low-Ballers TTT

Does the State of Texas have any discipline procedures or ethics rules. If this was to happen in NY the surveyor in question would probably be fined and suspended. In NY we cannot advertise like the common reptile (lawyer), don't get me wrong we have people here working for peanuts but they are usually weeded out as bottom feeders.

For all the flack the ambulance chasers get, I can't recall ever seeing an ad (and I see lots of them in Florida) where they were competing on price or offering special deals to undercut each other.

I agree. Lowballers are the bane of our profession. As a profession we promote lowballing by getting on forums like this and discussing price, or how much for this survey. This emphasizes the importance of price, or a commodity over value.

Randy, you are absolutely correct for turning these “Professionals” (?) in.

Be cautious, gentlemen

First let me say I whole-heartedly agree that low-ball (pronounced scum-bag) outfits are a bane to our profession. We have them here thick as mosquitos sometimes.

There are also a good number of fine solo (or semi-solo) professional surveyors that survive very well in a rural environment that would kill most of us. I can list a dozen or more whose phone number is on my wall. These men (and women) perform at a professional level but do not have the "luxury" of the work-rich environment we have near a population center.

I get price-shoppers that call from these rural areas regularly. I do a little research and come up with a number. When the prospective client tells me that "Don" out of Stonewall, OK would do it for a little over half of my quote...I tell them Don's good, he's closer and would probably enjoy the work; I'm looking at three hours of windshield time each day.

We share records with most of these folks. They know they can drop by if they're in town. I know I can call them and pick their brain about something that is down in their neck of the woods.

And even though their fees sometimes can be less than half of my quote; they still do quality work. Sometimes there is really someone that can do it a lot cheaper.

Agreed

Paden is correct. I could drive two hours or so to several major survey markets and try to grow my company. However, I have no history in those areas so would have to start from barebones scratch on every project. There is no way I should be able to be price competitive with firms that routinely work those areas unless they are all banding together to charge excessive prices (whatever that might be). So, why is it that other so-called professionals think they can suddenly appear in my backyard out in the sticks and give away projects. Either you know the area or you don't. If you know the area well, you can probably do a third of the effort because you already know the other two-thirds of what you need to know. How much you charge for that pre-existing knowledge is the big factor.

I have no desire to be in a cutthroat, dog-eat-dog type of work environment.

Be cheap, gentlemen?

> Paden is correct. I could drive two hours or so to several major survey markets and try to grow my company. However, I have no history in those areas so would have to start from barebones scratch on every project. There is no way I should be able to be price competitive with firms that routinely work those areas unless they are all banding together to charge excessive prices (whatever that might be). So, why is it that other so-called professionals think they can suddenly appear in my backyard out in the sticks and give away projects. Either you know the area or you don't. If you know the area well, you can probably do a third of the effort because you already know the other two-thirds of what you need to know. How much you charge for that pre-existing knowledge is the big factor.
>
> I have no desire to be in a cutthroat, dog-eat-dog type of work environment.

Sorry Holy and Paden, but I'm not getting your point. Are you saying it's OK and/or respectable to be "cheap"...er..."competitive" or give away your work as long as it's in your backyard?

I think a truer point has been made regarding professionalism. We lower ourselves to the tradesman level every time we cut our fee to get work.

Be cheap, gentlemen?

No, sir. We turn a very nice profit for ourselves in the process.

First, many of us in the boonies do not have a million dollars worth of overhead so as to be able to tackle everything from an elevation certificate to rebuilding the Panama Canal. We focus on certain types of projects in an area where we have extensive knowledge. Call it niche marketing if you prefer. Second, many of us work for ourselves rather than being just one more timeclock puncher on a long list of timeclock punchers. We get the gravy, not some guy spending most of his time lounging in a deckchair a thousand miles away.

Some firms need to charge three times the rate just to net the same dollars. That is their problem, not mine. There is no "fee cutting" to it.

Be cheap, gentlemen?

Expertise may yield significant differences in price.

Be cheap, gentlemen?

It probably depends on how hungry you are . I know when the economy went south , all the PLS that got laid off bought a cheap Robot and went to work , the prices took a dive . I saw stakeout going for half the going rate , and lot surveys going for $ 275 . They can have it. There is a market for the cheap surveyor ..

For me win the job or do not do it , Sometimes I would rather do the job . You large firm guys are looking through a different filter . Get up every morning knowing you have to get the work and make payroll etc and see if you have the stones to price every job at the top . I have many jobs were the client has required 3 prices it sucks but thats the game .

My experience is there is tier level clients , being able to recognize them is gold in the bank .

Some jobs I do are community service , because I know the client cannot afford it and they have a real property issue . So I dont charge that much , but get positive recognition in the community ..

I can do it cheaper than the big firms and more efficient . I am not a low baller but I am doing something right , been in business 16 years and have a 45% profit margin..

Be cheap, gentlemen?

Pick a number, any number. Say $100,000. You sell used cars. You want to net $100,000. Which sounds like a better deal? Sell 100 cars with a $1000 mark up or sell 10,000 cars with a $10 mark up? When you live in a neighborhood where selling 100 cars is the norm you had better find a way to have that $1000 mark up. That's how those of us who live in the boonies have learned to run a business. Quantity don't mean diddly. Results are all that matter. Facilitizing to sell the 10,000 cars is not economically feasible.

Be cheap, gentlemen?

Bottomline, "Don" in Paden's post should be commanding more than half of what the job is worth to Paden. Paden is a pro, right?

Cheap is cheap no matter if it's in your own backyard or not.

Be cheap, gentlemen?

If surveyor A uses software A with well-built routines for task at hand and surveyor B uses software B with no routines for task at hand...would it be fair to say that if said task at hand is a repetitive motion of thousands of calls (performed automatically with software A, and manually with software B) surveyor A may provide a much better price than surveyor B for the deliverables?

Henry Ford revolutioned the industry because he understood a few key concepts that reduce costs and improve performance for repetitive tasks.

Sometimes, the perceived low baller is simply more astute in his/her work flow. And the competition complains because they haven't figure out a better way to do things.

This is America, charge what you want.

Be cheap, gentlemen?

I like this Cow.
Plus, there are not enough hours in a year for me to sell 10,000 cars as a solo operation.
I do not want every job I could get.

"Don" makes good

And so do I.

Lady wanted her 10 acres (SW of the SW of the SE) surveyed and split into three tracts for the youngins'.

Don has seven of the eight corners in that section filed of record. It's 15 minutes from his house. I'm sure he's crawled all over that section and the only pins that need set are the new ones. I'm two hours away with no section info.

My quote was a little south of 2500. Don was at 1200 or so. I don't think he leaves anything on the table. For a couple of hours field time and an afternoon at the keyboard he'll make some bank.

Be cheap, gentlemen?

I wouldn't be so quick to assume why other firms charge what they do.

I would ask the following questions on boundary surveys:

Q Are banks getting higher total fees to finance the project?
A Yes.

Q Are Realtors getting higher total fees to buy/sell the project?
A Yes.

Q Are banks experiencing higher potential risk to finance a now more expensive project?
A Yes.

Q Are Realtors experiencing higher potential risk to buy/sell a now more expensive project?
A Yes.

I might assume the property is more expensive than 10 years ago and everyone's potential risk is higher than 10 Years ago.

How are your total fees relative to 10 years ago?

60 percent higher

That's right. Today's rate is 160 percent of that precisely 10 years ago. Meanwhile, my interest rates on my loans have fallen dramatically.

60 percent higher

> Today's rate is 160 percent of that precisely 10 years ago.

My rate comparisons vary by category (1-man field, 2-man field, office), but for the last 10 years the change runs from 143% to 165%. For the 10 years before that (1994-2004), the increase ranged from 118% to 167%.

60 percent higher

HC that assumes that you actually charged a fee equal to a percentage of the property value. You also need to account for property or project price increases.

Some of you misunderstand the situation.

This was a 3 man crews in a new ford crew cab with the company name all over it.

The owner took several pictures.

4 hour round trip, 3 man crew in a new truck, the owner said that this crew was stumbling around for 5 hours.

Do the math, 9 hours, 3 crew members, fuel, then the office time, etc, etc. 200 bucks!!!!!!!

This crew probably did the best they could, but when the RPLS got the info, he just decided it was not worth the trip back to gather more info and/or set the missing pins and hoped it would all be good.

BTW, I actually found every pin called for but one. Took me all day long to do so, its very rugged and steep waterfront property and the original subdividing surveyor in the 60's used a metal rod similar to a welding rod. These days they are in pretty rough shape, but if you get in the right spot, with the locator on high, you can find them. One thing I have learned over the years is that working out of your back yard is usually trouble, no matter how hungry you are.

I usually leave it up to the public to turn someone in to the Board, but this surveyor needs to be called upon the red carpet.

Randy