The plat is from 83. The signatures are 83. It does have a state seal on it with survey name and numbers.
> I have no idea what a "location drawing" is. Maybe that is the local term for a survey map?
I don't either. I don't knwo if it's a drawing based on a survey or not. I just don't see an indication that it isn't based on a survey. Just not enough information.
When I see Bearings to seconds and measurements to hundredths, I suspect survey, I did not run a closure, but I expect it would close, another indicator.
jud
Looks like you got screwed and some idiot realtor made a copy of the subdivision map and gave it to you as a land survey.
Hire a surveyor. Drop the Zero and Get the Hero.
That looks like it is probably a copy of a portion of the original subdivision plat, and not a survey done in connection with your purchase. Point numbers ranging from 7 to 347 is a clue that the original covered more than your lot.
So 29 years that was what was intended. No one may have ever checked if the pins were really set, or if set that the plat distances matched what was set.
You may find everything as indicated, or you may find very little evidence.
I tend to agree.
Of course I'm not sure this guy isn't one of "us" trying to pull our chain (pun intended).
I am suspicious of his term "property pins" and yet implied ignorance on other matters. I more often here the term "stobs" or "stakes" from the non-survey community. "pins" seems like a more surveyor-based term to me. He also gets the concept that measurements are made horizontally and is asking if he can make any mistakes measuring up and down hills.
But it's a good debate whether this is a surveyor in disguise or not. Can a property owner survey his own land with limited knowledge? Is the fairly intelligent guy who hasn't worked on a survey crew "smart enough to be dangerous" when he is trying to recover his 30-year-old corners?
You should hire a surveyor to walk in the footsteps or perhaps step in the tracks.:-D
Was wondering the same when slope distance was brought up. There is a big difference in my description of surveying your own land and an owner looking for and recovering existing record monuments. Never considered searching for monuments a survey, it is just one part of such and if monuments are found and a few checks made might make a new survey unnecessary.
jud
You need to hire a surveyor. Chances are, half of the pins are now gone and will need to be reset.
> The coordinates are essentially meaningless since it appears they just used an assumed coordinate system (10,000.000, 10,000.000)
An assumed coordinate base is nor more or less usefull than any other basis, as long as it is appropriately defined. If I follow such a survey, and no coords are shown, my first visit will has such an assumed base precalced from the line/curve data. Standard procedure for land surveys in the 5 or so western states I have worked in.
Not meaningless at all, but a redunant check available to compare with the line data.
Could be "essentially meaningless" for some types of surveys, but perfectly consistent will lots of boundary practice and lots of other local applications.
As far as showing to the thousanth of a foot, if that is govt requirement so be it. If the surveyor did that on his own, you can bet that stands out as a surveyor I will have to look at much more closly to find other misunderstood relevance in all the work.
> I purchased a 1 acre property a few months ago. I recieved a location drawing at closing. ........ Can I deduce the location based on this drawing?
>
Why sure you can deduce the location based on that drawing and the wisdom offered on this forum.
And, with the marvel of the internet, you can then protect yourself in the lawsuit your neighbor files when the fence you build doesn't line up with his title lines by using the advice found at the following attorney's forum:
www.snakepit.com
And then, when you've experienced the stress of boundary litigation, you may find the following site of medical professionals of use for diagnostics and surgery advice on your forthcoming stress enduced heart issues:
www.duckpond.com
And of course we beerleggers will be standing right behind you the whole time. We'll be more than happy to provide our expert, although widely varying, opinions every step of the way.
Disclaimer: We do reserve the right to laugh and point fingers.
GOOD LUCK !!
Your best deduction won't be good enough. Call a Land Surveyor. That's what they do for a living. I'm sure you have a few in your area.
This will save you money in the long run.
First, I hope you weren't charged anything at closing for a copy of work done in 1983. As a matter of business, I don't give out copies of my work to anyone except the client, and only then at the time of the survey. (exceptions may be made for design professional needs) I have not had anyone take me up on the "lifetime" survey subscription fees so that they can just call me anytime and get updates.
Second, Buyer beware. If you signed off at closing on something that limits the title company to only defects discovered by a current and accurate survey, you screwed yourself. (if anything turns up to cause a cloud on the title, or you have to fend off legal claims)
Third, The practice of land surveying varies widely, so showing us a little snippet of whatever it is that you have there means absolutely NOTHING.
So,you are either pulling our legs here, or are too embarrassed by your naïveté to post the whole map. Either way, good luck.
:good:
> I purchased a 1 acre property a few months ago. I recieved a location drawing at closing. It shows property pins were set on the corners. It also gives Degrees, Minutes and seconds as well as bearing (N, E, S, W). It also gives feet of each property line. On the drawing it indicates iron rods were set at each point of the property. It also gives coordinates, but in thousands. For example it shows pin 24 is set at (10015.861, 10646.883)???? My goal is to find the location of the property pins. Can I deduce the location based on this drawing?
Lets start all over.
Welcome to the SurveyorConnect.com board. WARNING: Us surveyors are a squirrelly bunch. We are offering the best advice we can give you (for free), while at the same time trying to protect your neighbors and you FROM yourself should something go wrong.
Here we go:
> I purchased a 1 acre property a few months ago. I recieved a location drawing at closing.
This could be an actual plat map, or an ILC (as the call in Colorado and other places). You might have gotten part of a subdivision plat copied by a well intentioned lawyer, paralegal or title person. This may or may not represent a field survey.
> It shows property pins were set on the corners. It also gives Degrees, Minutes and seconds as well as bearing (N, E, S, W). It also gives feet of each property line.
I'm assuming that there is a note on the plat somewhere that says "Iron Rods Set at all lot corners and points of street angle and curvature, unless otherwise noted" This note is pretty typical. I hope they actually set them. The Bearings of the lines, such as N62°38'39"E 326.86' is a typical bearing. If you have a hand compass, you may be able to get near to this bearing to begin your trek to find 'an iron rod'. The distances shown are depicting that it is on a flat "plane". If the ground is hilly, you will have to "break chain" or calculate the hypotenuse of the triangle to know how far you actually have to measure to fine the corner. Slope distance is ALWAYS longer than the distance show on the plat... 100% of the time.
> It also gives coordinates, but in thousands. For example it shows pin 24 is set at (10015.861, 10646.883)????
You can totally ignore these as the would only be useful to a surveyor or someone using coordinate geometry.
> My goal is to find the location of the property pins. Can I deduce the location based on this drawing?
With enough hard work and the correct tools and fortitude, you may be able to find your corners... provided that they are still in the ground from 1983. If you hire a local, qualified LICENSED LAND SURVEYOR... he would be able to find and or reset all of these property corners... along with the building envelope... or anything else that is needed to be located upon this plat... THAT IS HIS JOB!
Please take our suggestions... You wouldn't take your truck to florist to get it fixed... call a land surveyor and get it surveyed... PLEASE!!
> Your best deduction won't be good enough.
This is true. This is why you hire a surveyor
> Call a Land Surveyor. That's what they do for a living. I'm sure you have a few in your area.
Yes we do.
> This will save you money in the long run.
Time also... time and money... and will keep you from having undue stress and loads and loads of frustration.
> ...Never considered searching for monuments a survey, it is just one part of such and if monuments are found and a few checks made might make a new survey unnecessary.
> jud
Jud, good point about searching for corners not being a survey. I just used that term, but I knew what you meant. However, I think you know there has been a lot of discussion about non-surveyors offering to go out and search for the corners and whether it is a function of a licensed surveyor or not. My suspicions are that that is the discussion this personna was trying to evoke. He didn't get a lot of discussion about that and then introduced the concept that a lot of property owners might not even understand about horizontal measurements. Not sure why he didn't ask about the funny way inches are displayed, or ask whether you had to have a special tape measure to get to them decimal-feet thingies.
If what you are looking at is a subdivision plat, and not a survey, it's possible that the lot corners were never set, depending on your state's law. Surveyors in Florida, for example, were not required to set lot corners while preparing a subdivision plat until 1999 (IIRC). Generally, it wasn't until someone bought the lot, and decided to have the lot surveyed, that property corners were set.
A few years ago I did a survey in a 1920s era subdivision that was never really developed. The city was buying up about a hundred lots and turning it into a park. I found very few lot corners were ever set. Maybe 1 and 20 corners were found.
Your state's laws/rules may vary.
Thank You Carl! You are a gentleman and just a nice guy.
steppinthrax
I would like to add one more thing:
The drawing you have should also give descriptions of what those markers were. It should also list definitions of the abbreviations.
Many of us will give a bit of advice for free. I consider it Business Development, and just good will.
Ignore the grouchy guys... times are tough
point taken, TP
> > The coordinates are essentially meaningless since it appears they just used an assumed coordinate system (10,000.000, 10,000.000)
>
> An assumed coordinate base is nor more or less usefull than any other basis, as long as it is appropriately defined. If I follow such a survey, and no coords are shown, my first visit will has such an assumed base precalced from the line/curve data. Standard procedure for land surveys in the 5 or so western states I have worked in.
>
> Not meaningless at all, but a redunant check available to compare with the line data.
>
> Could be "essentially meaningless" for some types of surveys, but perfectly consistent will lots of boundary practice and lots of other local applications.
>
> .
I guess if the Plat didn't close and it wasn't an obvious scrivener's error then the assumed coords would help find the blunder.
