So they have the technology for the target lock to calculate the exact center of the prism, but it can't use that same technology to see that it's locking on my BS or FS circle prisms instead of the 360 rover prism?
JPH, post: 390287, member: 6636 wrote: So they have the technology for the target lock to calculate the exact center of the prism, but it can't use that same technology to see that it's locking on my BS or FS circle prisms instead of the 360 rover prism?
If you are using Survce, you can set up the search window to not lock on the backsight prism once the backsight is finished (look under equipment and search window. No way to block out any other prism that I know of. My experience is with the 1200 series only and I have no experience with Leica collection software
I'm sure I'll get a chiding for this, but I tend to avoid setting a stationary backsight when running robotics for this reason. It's annoying. Also, if you pass by the backsignt the gun can get stuck on it and you may take several measurements before realizing they're all to the same point...
The newest Captivate series instruments have a function called "Powersearch filter" that lets you find and exclude any static reflectors and reflections for next time you'll use Powersearch. Additionaly there's an option to automatically add the setup points to the Powersearch filter. Also maintaining the lock to your prism while other reflectors are in the sight of view have been significantly improved. Try them out if you have a chance!
JPH, post: 390287, member: 6636 wrote: ... it can't use that same technology to see that it's locking on my BS or FS circle prisms instead of the 360 rover prism?
The current generation of instruments/software can
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I have not been in a position to run a robotic gun in awhile (ran a theodolite yesterday tho) but recall one day, many moons ago, we had a rental, and not much instruction on it. It caused me great frustration, then much cussing, then some anger, before I realized it grabbed the reflective lens of each car that passed by slow enough for it to lock to. Yes, this was back in the earlier days of the technology, and is part of why I do not follow the bleeding edge of technology. as some great mind said, "technology is a great thing, but I fear we have let it grow to far"
What I generally do to avoid the prism re-locking on my BS on FS when doing a traverse like that, is I always have some strips of cloth or "danger tape" (guess you guys call it flagging) with me, so I just take my shot to the prism and cover it until I'm ready to move along again, then I send the assistant to remove the plastic or whatever I used to cover it and its not an issue. Or, although I prefer not to do that is to set up the Bs and FS, take my shot to it and then rotate the prism within the tribrach. I mean it can spin 360 for a reason.
[USER=10323]@James[/USER] - The background music in the Ad makes it sound like a intro the next Blade film, or like I'm driving past some 19-year old on the way to dark and scary club....dam da da dam da da dam da da daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam!!!!!
We have the active track prism (think that's the name) with out S5. Doesn't that solve the issue, at least kind of? I mean it only locks onto whatever "channel" you're on. Personally only used it once while surveying in a busy road in mid city and didn't seem to be much better than the normal 360 so it kinda just sits in the office looking pretty now. Maybe I'm using it wrong. Also not sure if Leica makes a similar product? Haven't used Leica in a few years
Cheers
Monte, post: 390315, member: 11913 wrote: I have not been in a position to run a robotic gun in awhile (ran a theodolite yesterday tho) but recall one day, many moons ago, we had a rental, and not much instruction on it. It caused me great frustration, then much cussing, then some anger, before I realized it grabbed the reflective lens of each car that passed by slow enough for it to lock to. Yes, this was back in the earlier days of the technology, and is part of why I do not follow the bleeding edge of technology. as some great mind said, "technology is a great thing, but I fear we have let it grow to far"
Early robots that were passive tracking would lock on shiny objects, but everyone I've used, manufactured within the last five years does a fantastic job of interrogating targets and discriminating against objects that aren't prisms.
As for backsights, I always made a habit of watching the angle and the current position icon to insure the robot was tracking the fs prism. In the rare instance that I needed to work closely along the backsight line, I put my hat on the backsight prism.
T
RSAsurv, post: 390335, member: 10950 wrote: What I generally do to avoid the prism re-locking on my BS on FS when doing a traverse like that, is I always have some strips of cloth or "danger tape" (guess you guys call it flagging) with me, so I just take my shot to the prism and cover it until I'm ready to move along again, then I send the assistant to remove the plastic or whatever I used to cover it and its not an issue. Or, although I prefer not to do that is to set up the Bs and FS, take my shot to it and then rotate the prism within the tribrach. I mean it can spin 360 for a reason.
[USER=10323]@James[/USER] - The background music in the Ad makes it sound like a intro the next Blade film, or like I'm driving past some 19-year old on the way to dark and scary club....dam da da dam da da dam da da daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam!!!!!
We have the active track prism (think that's the name) with out S5. Doesn't that solve the issue, at least kind of? I mean it only locks onto whatever "channel" you're on. Personally only used it once while surveying in a busy road in mid city and didn't seem to be much better than the normal 360 so it kinda just sits in the office looking pretty now. Maybe I'm using it wrong. Also not sure if Leica makes a similar product? Haven't used Leica in a few years
Cheers
The active track does solve the issue and tracks and relocks a lot faster and more reliably in my experience of using both systems. I think Trimble have a pretty watertight patent or Leica would have their own version. The filter option in Captivate is good but not completely foolproof despite the marketing hyperbole. The video showing machine targets is downright misleading because the filter cannot exclude a moving prism.
squowse, post: 390422, member: 7109 wrote: I think Trimble have a pretty watertight patent or Leica would have their own version.
My guess is that it's less a patent issue and more a matter of construction and measurement philosophy. I don't think Leica wanted to separate the optical axis from the angle measurement axis for reasons of complexity, whereas Geodimeter/Trimble was okay having two systems -- the optical train and a diode sensor to track the angle -- and accepting the burden of keeping the two in alignment. But I don't have any insight into this other than conversations with a Leica rep many years ago.
Do the S-series Trimble guns still use the diode for angle measurement, or just for rough tracking?
Jim Frame, post: 390427, member: 10 wrote: My guess is that it's less a patent issue and more a matter of construction and measurement philosophy.
FWIW, from http://www.wild-heerbrugg.com/inside%20Leica%20TCA2003.htm
"Leica chose the passive target system for several reasons, including:
- ability to use standard EDM prisms with ATR
- coaxial line-of-sight (LOS), EDM, ATR
- no power requirements at remote target (for remote monitoring applications)
- allows direct and reverse angle and distance measurements"
Still, I find it strange that it can't or won't automatically exclude circle prisms when a 360 prism is selected. Seems that the technology is there, just hasn't been programmed as such.
JPH, post: 390524, member: 6636 wrote: Still, I find it strange that it can't or won't automatically exclude circle prisms when a 360 prism is selected. Seems that the technology is there, just hasn't been programmed as such.
Sounds worthy of asking if the feature could be implemented or if it's possible.
W
Conrad, post: 390521, member: 6642 wrote: FWIW, from http://www.wild-heerbrugg.com/inside%20Leica%20TCA2003.htm&apos ;"> http://www.wild-heerbrugg.com/inside Leica TCA2003.htm
"Leica chose the passive target system for several reasons, including:
- ability to use standard EDM prisms with ATR
- coaxial line-of-sight (LOS), EDM, ATR
- no power requirements at remote target (for remote monitoring applications)
- allows direct and reverse angle and distance measurements"
Well that is pretty old documentation. Points 1, 3 and 4 don't apply if comparing to S series at least.
Not quite sure of the advantage of coaxial line of sight. You can check the measurement with autolock turned off for reassurance.
I have been told (by a Leica dealer rep) that the active target is patented. I am pretty sure I have seen the patent online.
Having the option of the active target is certainly an advantage, but Leica's passive tracking keeps lock better than Trimble's passive.
I am sure that if Leica offered the active target as an option (if it didn't violate the patent) then it would be taken up by many.
I was also told by a different rep from leica that the TS15 differentiates between the types of prism and would try to choose the type selected but I am pretty sure that was just wishful thinking (as you have discovered).
JPH, post: 390524, member: 6636 wrote: Still, I find it strange that it can't or won't automatically exclude circle prisms when a 360 prism is selected. Seems that the technology is there, just hasn't been programmed as such.
The ATR uses an infrared CCD. The shape of the reflection from the different prism is pretty similar - a circle. A bit like what you would see if you caught it in your headlights. The CCD is not as good as the human eye to discern the difference.
The ability to use the telescope camera to intelligently recognise targets eg a retro cross-hair cannot be far away. If they aren't working on it then they really should be. (all of the manufacturers).
It would make automated monitoring of large arrays of prisms so much cheaper and more reliable. (using retros instead of prisms)
One tripod for the instrument one rod with glass, that's the design presumption. I get around it by extending control to reflectorless points early in the job.
I only use more tripods and more glass when running the "check & adjust", or at a baseline.
Every time I go out there's the temptation to put up another tripod to save some walking, and I have to remind myself that every problem begins when we change our procedure. Like ten years ago I had some repeated windshield time because I shot the backsight a bunch not realizing it and had to go back. One tripod one rod after that. Do what you can with what you got.
Like a tall blonde girlfriend
The Swiss Miss is always right
You just don't understand.
half bubble, post: 390539, member: 175 wrote: I shot the backsight a bunch not realizing it and had to go back.
Early in my robotic experience I shot the backsight 60 times before realizing what was going on.
Jim Frame, post: 390544, member: 10 wrote: Early in my robotic experience I shot the backsight 60 times before realizing what was going on.
I've done the same. It should be pretty easy to give a audible alert if the last point is within a set tolerance of the current point. I too learned to always make sure the screen is updating as I move but at times you have to have your head up if u want to make it home (traffic).
I
Adam, post: 390557, member: 8900 wrote: I've done the same. It should be pretty easy to give a audible alert if the last point is within a set tolerance of the current point. I too learned to always make sure the screen is updating as I move but at times you have to have your head up if u want to make it home (traffic).
I think Trimble Access software has a duplicate point warning. You can choose to ignore, rename, overwrite or abandon the measurement from memory.
I think a similar option is also now in Captivate.
squowse, post: 390422, member: 7109 wrote: T
The active track does solve the issue and tracks and relocks a lot faster and more reliably in my experience of using both systems. I think Trimble have a pretty watertight patent or Leica would have their own version. The filter option in Captivate is good but not completely foolproof despite the marketing hyperbole. The video showing machine targets is downright misleading because the filter cannot exclude a moving prism.
To be honest, the machine control part of the video is not meant to show the Powersearch filter but the ability to differentiate between your prism and other reflectors that come into the view (without doing the Powersearch filter)