Big Al,
Yes... I feel your pain with a Disto... nice features but you need a pocket guide or something if you do not use it often enough to remember all of the functions. I did see a new model now that has an actually Help menu with graphical explanations on how to use the functions. It is one of the high end models but maybe this is a good sign of product improvement.
Mark,
The points about the number of key strokes need for an operation is what I am interested in... like I said above in a reply I should have started the thread as "What are the technical issues of Leica or downfalls of hardware". In the System1200 gear it did take some keystrokes o switch between servers and the way Florida has the RTN mountpoints set up this would take more keystrokes in System1200... good point. The has been improved in the newer Viva system but it was not very good in System1200 comparably.
The vertical and horizontal motion being opposite on the trunnions is also a good point. The history behind this is that the design came about to be more efficient if users were working with the Leica on-board software. This is true if you are using the on-board software... but there are very few people in the US that us on-board versus an external data collector. Anyway, that is why the motions are on opposite sides and unless you have a collar microphone on the instrumentman's radio it is cumbersome at times.
I am not sure why the DNA was not included as a choice in the data collection software except it just may not be a priority and that the think is that any pull from the cord connections may disturb the level. I am still hoping that a new model of the DNA will be developed to have a better interface or should I say a new interface.
Bear Bait,
I have said it many times before... Yes I am a Leica dealer but I am a surveyor first. I do have a passion for Leica products just like others have passions.
I think this is what you should do. Every time you see a post from me just take it upon your self and post and remind everyone I am a Leica dealer. I am not sure how else to handle this with you. It seems to be a problem.
This is way off track of the intentions of this thread.
Frank,
Yes... at a competitive training we were shown that this parallax was not corrected for when a measurement was done with the refectorless. Yes We all stood there and took a measurement and then staked it out. Yes I do not post this type of information unless I have seen it myself. The point was to make people aware of this issue.
If this has been corrected by Trimble in newer firmware since the post was done in January then no I am not aware of this and I have not posted since the date of the thread when I had specific knowledge that this did not work. This issue was something that was a technical issue. You really need to read the whole post and the responses from others.
Just like you complained to start this thread--you talk about it but you have not provided anything to show that the parallax issue on Trimble is anything significant at any distance. You have made some strong statements against Trimble in this national forum, and all you can say is that you concluded this in a competitive training session? Give me a break.
The mustard's sliding off the Hot Dog now...
Every one has their IMHO, comments, some people can be civil about their comments, some people can a PIA.
That's just my 2cents, just saying.
Surveyors purchase/lease survey gear they can afford, the really smart ones just don't buy the cheapest gear they for the best price they can find on the www. They purchase/lease from the place the salesman/Rep/Dealer who stands behind what they sell, are there for the long haul, Service after the sale, my sheet's broken/needs repair, can my survey crew drop it off for service, can your repair guy take a look??
Can I rent something to keep my crews working, I have a huge back load of work, Most reputable outfits will offer a gratis loaner, keeps 'em coming back for more gear and accessories, their next purchase.
This is the cornerstone of the way my company and I proudly work to support our profession, it's a new Global Hemisphere out there.
IMHO, STM is ONE of the best guys in the business, I'm proud to have worked with Mark at LGS. It's too bad LGS North America still can't figure out it's the team behind the equipment that keep the customer's knocking at the door.
-BbBB-)
Frank,
You really need to reread the whole thread you are pointing towards when you have some time to think about it. Also it is always an attack on your end not sure why. I guess we just need to but this thread to bed.
BBB,
Thanks for the post. I will catch up with you later.
The basis of the your thread is obviously that you are stating that people say "Leica sucks" without basis.
But you say in a national forum that Trimble has a parallax error that is obviously of significance. You state that your basis is that you learned about it in a your dealership competitive training session, and you haven't provided a stitch of information to even show if it is significant.
Trimble sells good stuff and they stand behind it. They do not sell stuff that makes significant systematic measurement errors in intended use like you accuse them of.
Ridiculous.
Over and out. Better things to do.
Based on early statements in this thread, I knew you used to work for Leica, but not that you were currently a Leica dealer/distributor. I did know that, having seen it elsewhere, but hadn't remembered.
Maybe include something in your signature? Actually, I should probably put my affiliation into my signature.
BTW, I completely understand the frustration that comes from someone saying, "this thing doesn't work!" without providing any more details.
Melita
Frank,
Again, reread all of the post associated with the mud sligging you are posting. Please dig up more post and paraphrase them.
Every manufacturer has issues including Leica.
You posted that to get a reaction and I fell for it. I guess I should have stopped the thread and posted a research paper for you on anything posted on this site.
We both know why this is happening and I am done with this. Please keep this semi professional.
Europeans don't traverse as much as they resect or free station. They also seem to work in azimuths. Neither one is obvious for Americans, yet that is what the Leica onboard does most efficiently. It is not a simple thing to turn on the Leica and turn a simple angle. This makes it hard for a field crew to get stuff done that a PLS could probably figure out. Not everyone enjoys an exam refresher just to turn some angles, though. In Europe, the lowliest rodman probably has a BS in Geodesy and could figure out how to get oriented without too much trouble. Selling Leica to guys in an oil patch or on a pipeline is just not the same.
I worked with a guy who used a T2. He never zeroed it. You put it on the tripod and leveled it and it was what it was. He did all the math by hand in the fieldbook to calc the relative angles, even for staking out. Azimuths were a relief after that. But if you never saw it done, or were never mentored that such a thing was possible, not many crews would think of it themselves.
> Europeans...seem to work in azimuths. Neither one is obvious for Americans...
Those Canadians a few miles north of you work in azimuths, too. There isn't much to it, it really makes a lot of sense. I'd wager that any Yankee willing to go with it one morning would have the hang of it by noon, and never want to go back by quitting time.
> I worked with a guy who used a T2. He never zeroed it...
Now that's silly. It must have been a lot of unnecessary work for him.
Half Bubble,
Yes the angle right was a sore spot for some time. In 2005 when I was first getting into the TPS1200 (This was the same on all previous Leica on-board softwares) angle right was not there. After a few years of complaining Leica did put it in and angle right was an option and still is in the new systems. However, the instrument are directional theodolites... not repeating ... now when you want to do Face 1 and Face 2 measurements the angle right goes out the window and you need to work with the instrument as directional. It all works out in the end inside the software routines but if you are booking things... Leica does not have a HOLD button to work as a means to have a repeating instrument.
I have met many surveyors that work in Azimuth around the country and do not mind this situation. I grew up on angle right but have adjusted to setting aside angle right since all of the measurements are in the raw data. But... if I had to book angle right and use a repeating method I would not know how.
" Leica does not have a HOLD button to work as a means to have a repeating instrument."
The 1200 that I use has a HOLD button.
> > I worked with a guy who used a T2. He never zeroed it...
> Now that's silly. It must have been a lot of unnecessary work for him.
What?
As I remember it; setting zero was extremely difficult; and I've turned a lot of angles with a T2. I would get it close to zero at the back sight, read the angle to the note keeper, turn it to the foresight and read it again, inverse the scope and read it again. I don't think we ever set zero, but it was long time ago....o.O
Did you have a newer model?
Dugger
Of course the T-2 was never designed to set zero. It was a direction theodolite and not a repeating instrument such as a Gurley transit.
"How do I double an angle with a T-2?" You don't. You go back to being a rodman until someone explains it to you.
The two handed thing is a Leica thing. Leica fans love it, everyone else hates it.
It is truly comic entertainment watching a Leica user try to operate any other brand of instrument, their left hand is up there trying to turn the non-existent knob.
Alluded to here, but I have one CS15 with Viva to run a 1201 and 8 varied Rangers from old school to some of the Spectra Precision TSC2 data collectors running Survey Pro. I could not get the 1201 robotic to talk to any rangers and did not particularly like the Carlson Data collector and bought the CS15. Very little and poor documentation on use and operation is my biggest gripe of the CS15. We are running everything from TC and TCA 1800's, 703, 803, TS06's and TS09's which will talk as long as I don't update anything. My TS09 just came back from the shop and now will no longer talk to the DC via Bluetooth in 4.92, but tried a 4.71 Survey Pro data collector and success.
The guys have no problem turning 2-5 sets of angles with any Ranger product, but I have struggled to come up with a procedure for simple sets with the CS15. It seems there is some cryptic procedure to turn a set, but documentation and help has been limited and unsuccessful. Staking to a line is also somewhat cryptic and difficult. We don't run LGO for anything but processing our DNA's, but when I ask how to get certain data sets out of the gun everybody starts the sentence with once you get it into LGO. An excellent gun(1201 robotic) gathers a lot of dust because of fear of using it. I took it out and figured out how to make it work, but as mentioned the less technical field guys struggle. We struggle to keep our field code file up to date because a helpful Leica tech built it a couple years ago and put a full page of instructions in an email on loading it, but now it is outdated and we just kind of gave up.
As you can see from my inventory, we believe in the Leica hardware, but the software lacks ease of use and ease of support for use. Before Trimble and then Spectra/Trimble bought TDS Leica and TDS worked together great; now I have to decide if we need to head down a new path since I am unhappy with the CS15 and Spectra has screwed up the Ranger and nobody talks to anybody else.
Thanks for listening.