Thank you Perry, I understand the concept (1/2,1/4 section), but her in MA it just dosen't register (glazed over look). I've seen junior monuments set on senior lines off by a couple tenths. Don't pincushion, shown on plan related to senior line. If everyone wants to shake hands on it, then so be it.
Bob
keep your 'manual'...give me a stonewall anyday...
They are the ultimate visible boundary line. People see them and say 'there's the boundary line'...no map required, no math needed..to bad they are disappearing.
Joe in CT
Joe
If you would read the Manual, it says exactly that........accept the local corners.
Keith
Then you find a drill hole that's 0.05 wide, that's 0.04 off.
You can tell a Texan from a long way away
But when he get up close, you can't tell him a thing.
> This is what makes me think that some surveyors have very limited experience. Surveyors in Austin were able to run transit lines 100 years ago so well that even today the allignment errors in their work are hardly worth correcting. What JB probably means is that all of the surveying in Utah is so sloppily done or the land so worthless that he'd rather not think about surveying anything properly.
>
Kent,
Did you know that New Hampshire is actually bigger than Texas if you flatten it out? I'm guessing that has something to do with it the perceived perfection of Texas surveyors.
You can tell a Texan from a long way away
Make sure you generalize and group us all together, too.
Joe re: Walls
..to bad they are disappearing.
>
>
That and the fact that every developer just has to get every single lot that the frontage allows, even if it means setting a lot line a short distance from a wall, just the thing to cause problems in the future.
You can tell a Texan from a long way away
> Did you know that New Hampshire is actually bigger than Texas if you flatten it out?
No, but I'll bet it might make a couple of West Texas counties once you burned all the trees off.
🙂
They automatically assume the last idiot's f' up is gospel.
And then hold up the Manual in the hopes it will deflect the flak that comes as a result of their nonsense.
There's a reason why things have worked in Colonial states for hundreds of years longer than the PLSS stuff.
Joe re: Walls
A comment worthy of Beavis and Butthead............."He said Gay uhheuhheuhheuhheuhhe."
Sean re: Walls
So you have same problem?...
Joe re: Walls
Sure do
> This is what makes me think that some surveyors have very limited experience. Surveyors in Austin were able to run transit lines 100 years ago so well that even today the allignment [sic] errors in their work are hardly worth correcting. What JB probably means is that all of the surveying in Utah is so sloppily done or the land so worthless that he'd rather not think about surveying anything properly.
There you go again, Kent. Making publicly slanderous comments about another professional who you don't know and have never cared enough to understand. I am probably one of the more anal surveyors in Utah when it comes to precision in our work, however I am definitely the most anal when it comes to proper retracement techniques when following the footsteps of another professional who has gone before me.
Yes, sometimes monuments are wrong and must be repaired. There's a right way and a wrong way to go about it. There's also a right way and a wrong way to conduct yourself on a professional forum.
JBS
> > This is what makes me think that some surveyors have very limited experience. Surveyors in Austin were able to run transit lines 100 years ago so well that even today the alignment errors in their work are hardly worth correcting. What JB probably means is that all of the surveying in Utah is so sloppily done or the land so worthless that he'd rather not think about surveying anything properly.
>
> There you go again, Kent. Making publicly slanderous comments about another professional who you don't know and have never cared enough to understand. I am probably one of the more anal surveyors in Utah when it comes to precision in our work, however I am definitely the most anal when it comes to proper retracement techniques when following the footsteps of another professional who has gone before me.
J.B., it isn't slander if it's true. I've read and can recall the odd things that you've posted over the years. My opinion is based upon what you've actually written and posted.
Horse Hockey JB
What is one of the first things that might make you suspect a monument has been disturbed?
A - The monument isn’t where your research says it should be.
Do you believe the surveyor INTENDED not to set it on line?
No, Kent... that's not what I mean.
If you have formulated an opinion about someone, keep it to yourself. No need to blast your misconceptions over a public forum.
I'll take accountability for everything that I say. I don't appreciate having to defend myself about things you say I say (but really didn't say).
JBS
Here's an example of a "problem" waiting to happen!
This is the Land Court Plan, following is the certificate of title.
since the plan shows the rock walls but neglects to include interior angles at all the lot corners, there is some subjectivity in the location of these property lines to an great degree of accuracy.
However, there are rock wall shown front (a portion) and back.
This plan is from 1913, the same year as the Manual of Instructions that Sean posted earlier.
It is tempting to hold 90 degrees from Tonset road on the easterly line and the same for the northerly line as it comes off the "Way" But who knows what the evidence will show on the ground.
I am not working on this parcel but I wanted to find an example of the potential for a "junior line" to bend a senior line. Later divisions of this property may find that the northern line isn't straight but meanders slightly making an angle break in that "senior" line.
The land court is famous for including just enough data on their plans. I would start by assuming the northwest angle is the reciprocal of the south west angle and the other two are 90 degrees. But I would locate that northern wall a little more accurately than in 1913 and petition the Court to accept my modification, if any....
Don
Mike, no Horse Hockey involved. The monuments are never precisely where they "should" be, yet we're going to blindly accept that some of the monuments are original and undisturbed while using mathemagics to defeat others? How do we know that the surveyor didn't set the monument on a line to a different point? Dimensions just don't matter in the grand scheme of which monuments control and which monuments don't.
You've failed to consider:
A - The monument isn't where your research says it should be (they never are);
B - The monument you're measuring from isn't where your research says it should be (they never are); and
C - The monument you're measuring to isn't where your research says it should be (they never are).
You've also failed to consider:
What makes any of the three monuments "control" the boundary? Hint: It's not based upon the fact that they are precisely located where they "should" be.
JBS
Famous or infamous for showing just enough information.
Seriously, I would look to the file plan for more information, that is if they even required them in 1913.
I agree Sean, that is the first step...
