When you consider that it takes a minimum of $50k or so to mount a contested quiet title action in CA, getting out of it for $20k and a few grand for a LLA looks pretty attractive.
haha, that's a great story Jim.?ÿ Karma definitely came back on him for that.?ÿ Basically you could had just told him "Well your choice, pay me now or pay me later."
This is one of the classic stories that all CE providers should pass along.
The cost of NOT getting a survey can?ÿ be immense.
This reminds me of the job many years ago where we were to cut out a two-acre tract around a house in the middle of an 80 acre-tract and document the location of the existing lane providing access to the road.?ÿ This only happened to settle a divorce case.?ÿ The judge was working with both sides on the establishment of the value of various items that were joint property.?ÿ Both parties to the divorce had abandoned the house and let it deteriorate terribly in a short time.?ÿ The ex-husband felt he should get the entire 80-acre tract as it had been in his family for three generations.?ÿ The judge then read off the listed appraisal, including a sizeable number for the value of the house.?ÿ The ex-husband protested, "I wouldn't give you a nickel for that damn house."?ÿ The judge calmly said, "OK, fine.?ÿ I hereby decree the house and two acres and an access lane be awarded to the wife."?ÿ NEVER, NEVER, NEVER undervalue something.
Does Cal have acquiescence? Seems more appropriate to the Frat case if so.
Except in cases where the parcel line is not determinable by survey, the answer is basically "No."?ÿ Bryant v. Blevins pretty much slammed the door on most agreement and acquiescence situations.?ÿ In this instance the parcels are lots in a city block that has been surveyed a number of times in the last 20 years, so an agreement/acquiescence claim won't fly.
Unless you actually pay by the square foot for taxes of property in CA, then I would submit that the gallery owner has in fact paid taxes. He certainly paid taxes on the square footage of the building, right?
I expect that this claim would fail because, while he may have paid taxes on the building, he didn't pay taxes on the land.?ÿ And it's the land the building occupies that's at issue.
In any case, his attorney has advised him to do the LLA and buy the sliver.?ÿ Works for me!
Jim Frame?ÿ, so you have learned some valuable information. Anytime somebody wants an quick estimate you can work it up in your head ,?ÿdouble it and then tell him you will work the numbers up and give him a real quote within 24 hours. (more accurate quote and ask if e-mail will be OK)
A first estimate should be a round number or a range.?ÿ It's a lot easier for someone to hear $2200 after "about 2k" than after $1900.
@jph I've seen a couple cases where an AP claim was proven in court, and the landowners had been paying taxes on the parcel. In one case, the then-current owner had purchased the lot without a mortgage, and failed to record the deed. Lost the deed. After 25 years went to sell the lot, but couldn't without a recorded deed. Got a judgement for ownership of the 1.5 acre lot by adverse possession. In another case, the owner was occupying 2 parcels for over the 20 year period, each about an acre in size, but the deed only described one of the parcels. Again, won a judgement for adverse possession of the second parcel. In both cases, the town tax assessor had been taxing the lots to the correct parties. For what it's worth, paying taxes is not a requirement for AP in Mass.
What hasn't been mentioned in all of this is a claim of prescriptive (or equitable) easement.?ÿ The usage has certainly satisfied the statutory time requirement.?ÿ But I imagine that the gallery owner's attorney has advised him that it's cheaper to buy the land and adjust the lot lines than to pursue an easement in court.
Rough survey estimates, and "schedules" lie in the same physical universal category as gravity: once you make an honest a "guess" in pricing and say something like "$1000" to "$2000" , "2 to 4 weeks" "MOST OF WHICH DEPENDS ON FACTORS ENCOUNTERED DURING THE SURVEY" is heard as "$1000 in 2 weeks" and like gravity never comes back out, all the rest gets lost in the universe.
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@jph?ÿ
I know nothing about California AP (except what's been related here), only a little about Montana's. But, I think you are answering the question, at least partly, why it's difficult to win an AP case in either.?ÿ
AP is often looked down upon by the judiciary and I believe some judges will look for anyway to avoid it or rule against it. But, if the elements are met they may rule in favor.?ÿ?ÿ
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@jph I really like that requirement for adverse possession. Since I have a huge distaste for the concept, it pleases me that the taxes requirement makes it very obvious to the current owner that someone else is claiming an interest in his property. Adverse possession shouldn't happen under the radar, anything that makes it more obvious is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.
Jim, if you have not yet brought up the fact of his dismissal of your services 20 years ago, you are a better man than I. I do not believe I could have resisted reminding him of the error of his ways and surely losing him as a client forever.
Very interesting.?ÿ But in both those cases it seems like the owners thought that they actually owned the land, and weren't attempting to adversely possess anything.?ÿ Makes me wonder how they won using that.?ÿ
It makes sense that the towns were taxing them as if they owned the land, since even they thought they did
This works if the adjoiner is willing to deal. What we found here in WA is that one party or the other would simply hold out, either for money reasons or some other reason. When we went to loser pays court costs on the quiet title actions, the number of AP cases dropped off severely, and everyone is willing to get the LLA.
In essence, the price for any sliver of land starts at $50,000, if that is the cost of AP, unless the loser pays, then a more realistic negotiation can take place.
And the time estimate in my mind is if you pay my retainer RIGHT NOW. Two weeks from now that two weeks might be two months.
if you pay my retainer RIGHT NOW
It's weird how many people do not understand that.
I've gotten signed emailed contacts back, and no retainer.?ÿ Then a call in a couple weeks asking about the progress of the survey.?ÿ And when I tell them that I'm waiting till I get the check before I start, they're in total amazement that I'm not done with the survey.
It turned out that the gallery owner got private funding and decided to proceed without a survey and just used the fences.?ÿ
The plot twist is that the gallery owner invested the $2,200 he didn't spend on a survey in Monster Beverage Corp. when it was a penny stock in 2000 and today it's worth $2.25 million.?ÿ ?ÿ
