AI Assistant
Notifications
Clear all

Is South 90 to East?

29 Posts
18 Users
0 Reactions
584 Views
RADAR
(@dougie)
Posts: 7880
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

When you read a description that says:

Beginning 15 east and 272.66 feet south of the northwest corner of the northwest quarter of the northeast quarter of the northeast quarter of section 20...;
thence east parallel with the south line of the northwest quarter of the northeast quarter of the northeast quarter of section 20, 330 feet;
thence south 68.17 feet;
thence west parallel with the south line of the northwest quarter of the northeast quarter of the northeast quarter of section 20, 330 feet;
thence north 68.17 feet to the point of beginning....

Are the east and west lines of this description perpendicular to the north and south lines; or should they parallel to one of the sides of the aliquot portion of the section?

TIA

Radar


 
Posted : March 22, 2013 11:28 am
nate-the-surveyor
(@nate-the-surveyor)
Posts: 10538
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

they are legally considered parallel to one of the sides of the aliquot portion of the section...
Unless there is other evidence.

N


 
Posted : March 22, 2013 12:01 pm
RPlumb314
(@rplumb314)
Posts: 450
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

This kind of POB call can refer to a point that has been previously surveyed or described. Quite a few of them do in this area, anyway. Of course the description writers ought to call for the underlying/adjoining lines and points, but they don't always do that.


 
Posted : March 22, 2013 12:05 pm
NYLS
 NYLS
(@nyls)
Posts: 189
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I do not work in the public land states, however, from a general concept, I would interpret them as being parallel and not Due East or Due South unless specifically stated that way.


 
Posted : March 22, 2013 12:16 pm
Scott McLain
(@scott-mclain)
Posts: 782
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

:good: That's how I do it, but some title companies are hard to convince.


 
Posted : March 22, 2013 12:56 pm

WA-ID Surveyor
(@wa-id-surveyor)
Posts: 982
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

> When you read a description that says:
>
> Beginning 15 east and 272.66 feet south of the northwest corner of the northwest quarter of the northeast quarter of the northeast quarter of section 20...;
> thence east parallel with the south line of the northwest quarter of the northeast quarter of the northeast quarter of section 20, 330 feet;
> thence south 68.17 feet;
> thence west parallel with the south line of the northwest quarter of the northeast quarter of the northeast quarter of section 20, 330 feet;
> thence north 68.17 feet to the point of beginning....

>

>
> Are the east and west lines of this description perpendicular to the north and south lines; or should they parallel to one of the sides of the aliquot portion of the section?
>
> TIA
>
> Radar

They are described as being parallel with ........

That is what they are parallel with.

Or, did you mean to ask this question in reference to the North and South calls? If so, then yes they should be parallel with the aliquot line unless evidence indiates otherwise. I have dealt with many of this type of description and can say unequivocally that there is litte consistency in this manner. Mainly because the legal description preparer was either a lawyer or title agent. I have seen significant portions of towns layed out in this manner and it's usually a mess.


 
Posted : March 22, 2013 1:00 pm
82316307
(@82316307)
Posts: 6
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Just be careful in Issaquah and Black Diamond. A lot of old deeds are based on the Palmer C.C. grids. Description may read, "200 feet south and 200 feet west of the N.E. corner of section..." The calls have nothing to do with lines parallel with subdivision lines.


 
Posted : March 22, 2013 4:51 pm
RADAR
(@dougie)
Posts: 7880
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

> ....The calls have nothing to do with lines parallel with subdivision lines.

So, what do they have to do with?


 
Posted : March 22, 2013 8:18 pm
82316307
(@82316307)
Posts: 6
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Cardinal from the called section corner.


 
Posted : March 22, 2013 8:26 pm
dave-karoly
(@dave-karoly)
Posts: 11990
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

No, south is more than 90 degrees from east. How much more depends on how long your east foresight is.


 
Posted : March 22, 2013 9:57 pm

Randy Hambright
(@randy-hambright)
Posts: 744
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Why no monument calls?

When I worked in Nevada, I saw this everyday, it was like pulling teeth to get someone to put a found monument call in the description.

Never really understood why you went to the trouble of finding something and then just call it the "ne of the nw of the sw" or whatever.

Randy


 
Posted : March 23, 2013 6:00 am
rankin_file
(@rankin_file)
Posts: 4079
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

> No, south is more than 90 degrees from east. How much more depends on how long your east foresight is.

Not necessarily. It depends on how far south you are.


 
Posted : March 23, 2013 7:41 am
dave-karoly
(@dave-karoly)
Posts: 11990
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

True, if you are on the equator south is 90 degrees from east.

If you are in Australia it's more than 90 degrees from east.


 
Posted : March 23, 2013 7:43 am
RADAR
(@dougie)
Posts: 7880
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

> ....Never really understood why you went to the trouble of finding something and then just call it the "ne of the nw of the sw" or whatever.

Welcome to my world......

Just wait until you see the one that says the northwest 10 acres...

Or the south 5 acres of government lot 4...o.O


 
Posted : March 23, 2013 9:19 am
douglascasementl
(@douglascasementl)
Posts: 100
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Surveying from a book on cookie cutter procedure is fine and dandy; unless you have surveyor's that don't read it.

That poster: RADAR, sure is a swell guy


 
Posted : March 22, 2016 8:58 am

vern
 vern
(@vern)
Posts: 1514
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

82316307, post: 199352, member: 7410 wrote: Cardinal from the called section corner.

I would add "relative to the mentioned grid".


 
Posted : March 22, 2016 12:14 pm
paden-cash
(@paden-cash)
Posts: 11086
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

RADAR, post: 199215, member: 413 wrote: ...Are the east and west lines of this description perpendicular to the north and south lines; or should they parallel to one of the sides of the aliquot portion of the section?

TIA

Radar

Depends on which one fits better...


 
Posted : March 22, 2016 12:18 pm
Tom Adams
(@tom-adams)
Posts: 3453
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Of course if you are retracing a description already created you look for evidence as to where it was once staked. (I know that's a cop-out), but there ismore than one way to interpret that description. I would also wonder if 330 feet, would be a proportional 330. I am always suspicious when I see 330 or 660.

I would think that if it's a "normal" section and you are the first to stake that description, most the time I would think a description written that way is written under the assumption that it is a square section 80 X 80 chains, and descriptions written in such a manner have the intent of going a proportional distance of the whole. But I am sure there are many court cases that insist that East is East, and 330 is 330 (and that "parallel to" is "parallel to").

Who wrote the description, were they just looking @ a quad map or a township plat to write it, was it surveyed, was it an original survey, what was the norm at the time it was written, is there evidence that a landowner has staked his claim without a survey?


 
Posted : March 22, 2016 12:29 pm
Brian Allen
(@brian-allen)
Posts: 1570
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

RADAR, post: 199215, member: 413 wrote: When you read a description that says:

Beginning 15 east and 272.66 feet south of the northwest corner of the northwest quarter of the northeast quarter of the northeast quarter of section 20...;
thence east parallel with the south line of the northwest quarter of the northeast quarter of the northeast quarter of section 20, 330 feet;
thence south 68.17 feet;
thence west parallel with the south line of the northwest quarter of the northeast quarter of the northeast quarter of section 20, 330 feet;
thence north 68.17 feet to the point of beginning....

Are the east and west lines of this description perpendicular to the north and south lines; or should they parallel to one of the sides of the aliquot portion of the section?

TIA

Radar

Well, it depends. Tom is right, it usually varies - a bunch. When faced with an ambiguity, you are allowed to "leave the deed" and find/use extrinsic evidence that makes the intent clear, hopefully there is evidence of prior establishment in which you would simply be retracing what was previously done and accepted on the ground. If this is a virgin parcel (none of the boundaries having been previously established) then I would consult with the parties about their intentions and help them establish the lines and clearly preserve the evidence of what the landowners intend.


 
Posted : March 22, 2016 12:47 pm
ddsm
 ddsm
(@ddsm)
Posts: 2222
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Brian Allen, post: 363666, member: 1333 wrote: Well, it depends.

I just got back from the Dr's office in prep for knee replacement...
He asked for a name of a surveyor 'to run a line', and started asking 'just use GPS?'...'it's along the ridge?'...etc.

I asked him if I would be able to climb the 'ridge' after surgery?

We agreed...WELL, IT DEPENDS!

(Tom, I did today's crypto in his waiting room and the 'inane' quote waiting in the exam room)

DDSM:beer:


 
Posted : March 22, 2016 2:01 pm

Page 1 / 2