"The mere lack of ability to locate the easement on the ground does not mean there is no easement, it just means you cannot locate it."
Do you have a citation for that statement, or is it your opinion? Would you extend the same logic to a fee parcel? Why or why not?
If Neccessary, Say "Easement Cannot Be Located"
But do not say it does not exist.
Paul in PA
> "The mere lack of ability to locate the easement on the ground does not mean there is no easement, it just means you cannot locate it."
>
> Do you have a citation for that statement, or is it your opinion? Would you extend the same logic to a fee parcel? Why or why not?
Just my opinion based on my experiences and numerous use on my part. In the classic case I reference regarding the as-staked power poles from the 50s. The power companies maintain extremely poor records (just like their easement language) I simply cannot locate said easement. The records are gone and know one can recreate the stakes from 1950s without records. On two occasions we pursued extensive research and came up completely empty each time.
Would I extend the logic to a fee parcel? No. Parcels in this area typically have a point of commencement that exists today and some style of description to follow. Plus there are adjoiner deeds to analyze. With this style of easement there is neither. There's a lot more too it than that, but you get the picture.
If Neccessary, Say "Easement Cannot Be Located"
I said it before, so I'll say it again now that I know the easement type. You have a 10 foot wide easement for a fiber Optic cable and the only assumption is that the easement is 5 feet either side of the cable. The client wants to know exactly where that strip is.
All of this has come about because you cannot locate the cable. A SUE contractor (Subsurface Utility Engineer) can whip out his ground penetrating radar unit and locate that sucker in an instant. You can get Level A through C, whatever your client will pay for. Once the line is located, the easement can be described with ease.
Short of digging up the cable, this is probably your only other option. Or simply shrug your shoulders and say "Beats the hell out of me" and walk away.
If Neccessary, Say "Easement Cannot Be Located"
I wish it were all that simple cptdent. It's in a high density commercial area that's completely paved and concreted over. There are multitudes of buried phone cables, both copper and fiber(some cables abandoned, some working), not to mention buried power, gas, water, sewer and Jimmy Hoffa for all I know and not sure ground penetrating radar can distinguish one from the other with the exception of Hoffa. The particular easement I was referring to doesn't specify whether it covers copper or fiber, is only described as a 'telecommunication easement 10' in width', with no description on how to locate the easement on the ground. The question was, at some point if an easement can't be located, is it still valid? My conclusion after reading all the comments is, who am I to say it's not just because I can't locate it? In this particular case, the client would like the easement located so that they can tear up the pavement to add a new fiber to follow the original. Do we need to clean up the original description or just let it stand? I've obtained old records on the placement of the fiber, far from exact and noted that they are associated with the easement, but the description by itself is insufficient to be used to locate it. It's not my place to determine whether it is valid or not. The irony is that it is my client that recorded this telecommunications easement using a somewhat lame but at the time, expedient description.
What I was really interested in is how others handle similar easement ambiguities and for that, I thank you.
Willy out.
If you had onetime had $20, then lost it...the $20 still exists (most likely), you just can't find it.
Any deed can be voided for abiguity. But just because there is not a locate-able by math description on the face of the deed does not mean that the easement is unlocatable. A lot of pipeline easement deeds in OK read something like "An easement for pipeline over the Section, Township, Range. Non-plottable from the office, but quite locatable in the field, and perfectly valid.
If Neccessary, Say "Easement Cannot Be Located"
I fully understand the "congestion" issues. That happens all the time. My point is, that with the new equipment, they can separate those lines and track each one individually.
We just had a job at the Communications Center of a major military base and the SUE guys were able to track the individual cables.
Today it is much more than just the GPR gear. They can send signals down the line and track it. Talk with your local SUE guys. You may be surprised.
The whole point being, that easement can be located. Even by tracking the bundles, the location can be determined.
Thanks for the schooling, what keeps me coming back.
:good:
I get these on Alta surveys . here's my note generally.
Easement claims 10' from installed underground utility , fiber optic cables as shown survey .
It usually flies by the Attorneys.
If Neccessary, Say "Easement Cannot Be Located"
>In this particular case, the client would like the easement located so that they can tear up the pavement to add a new fiber to follow the original.
I'm wrapping up a job where we designated over 300,000 LF of dry utilities through seven miles of road in downtown DC. Then we vacuum excavated 350 test pits to get accurate depths. 95% of the time the designated paint marks were within less than a foot of the actual horizontal position of the utility.
Done right (not just the half day training a lot of the "one call" contractors have) the accuracy these guys can locate the utilities to is incredible.
Hire a decent sub, pocket the 15% markup, and everyone is a winner 😀
On these types of easements I note the easement as follows:
Record No. Xxxxxx is not retractable from record evidence. The approximate location has been shown based upon evidence found in the field.
>Record No. Xxxxxx is not retractable
retraceable
My spell checker didn't like it without a hyphen, and wanted to replace it with retractable, so maybe that's what happened to you.
