I hate hearing things through the grapevine. The credibility of the content can be questionable.
That said, I heard there is some sort of agreement or letter stating that an Illinois Land Surveyor will now probe to ensure no utilities exist, before setting a pipe or rebar.
We have been exempt from JULIE/811 as long as we are using hand tools. This would seem as way around the exemption.
Anyone able to shed any light on this topic?
Thanks.
'Tain't gonna happen. Surveyors will go to setting 1/2" nails before that!
🙂
Nate
It's still a current point of discussion with JULIE, the Illinois one call system.
JULIE tried to initially get legislation requiring a locate before setting any pins. This obviously got a lot of push back from the Association membership.
Just use common sense. Look around. If you see any evidence of buried utilities nearby, be careful. The current legislation exempts those using hand tools, but some stuff got damaged in the Metro areas by surveyors setting pins, so the utilities are getting defensive.
What, Probe With A 1/2" Rebar Before Setting A 3/4" ?
What I use as a probe is 30" 1/4" sharpened steel rod with a wooden tee handle. I can do more utility damage with that than a blunt rebar or pipe.
Paul in PA
I agree about using common sense. Just Monday I was setting a pipe near a telephone splice box. I got an "all clear" with the probe before setting the pipe.
Weird thing is, I had never done that before, it just crossed my mind to check this time.
It wasn't until the next day when I heard about the possible requirement to check all the time.
thinking out loud here...What happens if I do encounter a utility? Guess I'll set an offset. In reality, the only way the utility will get moved is if it gets damaged. Utility companies should bear the full weight of responsibility and cost to replace property corners when damaged/ removed during utility installation.
Of course, that would be like having townships actually have monuments brought to the surface when resurfacing roads.
Topics like this are why I need to again be active in IPLSA.
I'm not from Illinois, but in my opinion, these laws should be "all or nothing". Either the utilities mark for surveyors, or they give us a full exemption ... no in-between BS. I've seen buried cables that could be easily missed with a probe, but not a posthole digger. Then what happens? Are surveyors still accountable for breaking a line even if they probed? Can you prove you probed first?
Basically, it's too expensive for the companies to send out a mark-up guy to look at all the spots I might need to dig or set a corner (including block corners, etc.), so they decided it's in their best interest profit-wise to give surveyors a full exemption. If they required surveyors to call ahead, I'd probably have to send over a plat with circles around all the lot corners and block corners I might look for. It would probably amount to dozens or locates per job, and maybe 2 jobs per day on average. I get why it's in both our best interests to take a slight gamble on shallow buried utilities. I'm fine with that, but what this proposal sounds like is a way for utility companies to pass some liability to the surveyors, while still refusing to mark for us.
> I heard there is some sort of agreement or letter stating that an Illinois Land Surveyor will now probe to ensure no utilities exist, before setting a pipe or rebar.
How will they enforce that?
You need to call, in Washington State; if you plan on scratching the ground....
You need to give them 48 hour notice and paint the area perimeter with white prior to setting a corner or digging for one....
Hefty fines if you don't comply....
Don't get caught...
Washington Call Before You Dig Law and Surveyors
I remember when you mentioned the "revised" directive in a thread. Scary, because I do a lot of hunting with a shovel and/or PHD. I think the fine for first occurrence is $1000 and $5000 thereafter.
When I mentioned that to some local surveyors, all I got was ::crickets:: :-O
[msg]179205[/msg]
Washington Call Before You Dig Law and Surveyors
> When I mentioned that to some local surveyors, all I got was ::crickets:: :-O
I know, right?
LOL...
How do you probe for underground 220v?
Yes, among other things.....IL is really getting a big thumbs down recently...
N10,000, E7,000, Z100.00
PLS - IL, MO, AR, KS, MN, KY
JULIE is working with us...really
A change in the law was attempted to require surveyors to call for locates when we place anything longer than 6 inches into the ground.
The "probe first" is a trial anda compromise to keep the locate companies from running aroound with their heads cut off.
Personally, I would be for a 6 month trial period of all locations of rebars and pipes being set for property corners or control points to be called into JULIE.....then they might realize what a silly idea they had.
By the way, simply because we are not required to call JULIE because we are simply driving a rebar into the ground, does not relieive us from the responsibility of damages when we do hit an underground line...........been there, paid those repair bills.
JULIE is working with us...really
> By the way, simply because we are not required to call JULIE because we are simply driving a rebar into the ground, does not relieive us from the responsibility of damages when we do hit an underground line...........been there, paid those repair bills.
What is the cost of hitting a gas line.....
Oh yea, that's right, it'll never happen to me....