Drilldo~ what a tough question. Seems like everyone is beating you up. What is the typical workflow for doing wellsites? I've been staking wellsites for nearly 20 years and the procedure (workflow) has changed many times over the years. Trying to go from distance from the section lines is difficult. The surveyor does it by locating the actual section lines. Sometimes we find the stones and establish the section lines and sometimes we have to go beyond the section and calc the section corners. Even though the land owner has x distance, y distance - there is not enough to just go out and find the point with out actually having the section corners by calc or actual position. Now... one solution is having the surveyor send out the coordinates to you before he stakes. BUT then cover your A$$. You can get in trouble quickly. That is what everyone is trying to convey because you are relying on unknown information and trying to take to a location that hasn't been staked by the surveyor. There is no magical conversion other than some assumed section lines you can get off google earth or other sites. But actual location trumps anything else!
What they want you to do is like asking the sheet rock crew to hang the sheet rock before the carpenters build the wall or the concrete crew builds the slab for the carpenters to build a wall on. It is just plain stupid! They should understand why their request is stupid. If they don't, they may also be stupid enough to try to not pay you for doing your work in the wrong place.
In all fairness HC, I think folks here are giving Drilldo a bit of a bashing. I agree his client is putting him in an awkward spot, but he's doing what all of us do daily, trying to make the best of it. In reading his original post, he is not drilling any wells, just doing some testing to see if the ground will support a rig. He needs to get in the ballpark so as not to eat too many hours testing the wrong location.
I can't offer you any 'survey' advice other than to caution you that sometimes section lines are not necessarily where you think they are and the location ultimately must be determined by a surveyor on the ground. That, is a given.
Drilldo, if you just want to get in the ballpark, look into some software called ALL TOPO. It's a digitally rectified USGS topo map program that will allow you to plot locations and switch projections. You could plot these locations on the USGS quad map and forward them to your client and their surveyor for their approval before starting your work. The program allows you to download a handheld GPS and plot locations as well as calculate theoretical positions. If you have a location that is close to a section line or requires more precision, you'll be in a better position to make a judgement call if you're not comfortable. I've found All Topo to be very useful for this kind of thing.
Hope this helps. ~Willy out.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
> Drilldo~ what a tough question. Seems like everyone is beating you up. What is the typical workflow for doing wellsites? I've been staking wellsites for nearly 20 years and the procedure (workflow) has changed many times over the years. Trying to go from distance from the section lines is difficult. The surveyor does it by locating the actual section lines. Sometimes we find the stones and establish the section lines and sometimes we have to go beyond the section and calc the section corners. Even though the land owner has x distance, y distance - there is not enough to just go out and find the point with out actually having the section corners by calc or actual position. Now... one solution is having the surveyor send out the coordinates to you before he stakes. BUT then cover your A$$. You can get in trouble quickly. That is what everyone is trying to convey because you are relying on unknown information and trying to take to a location that hasn't been staked by the surveyor. There is no magical conversion other than some assumed section lines you can get off google earth or other sites. But actual location trumps anything else!
Yes they are. I don't really get it because I am not doubting what people are saying and I am taking their advice. All I did was ask a question. It may seem like a dumb question to you guys because that is the type of stuff you do everyday but to someone like me I was not sure.
As to the typical workflow I have no idea. This is for a huge company and if often seems one hand does not know what the other is doing. The whole problem we have been running into is it seems like several people or groups are waiting on the wells to be staked and as soon as they are they run out their and start doing their work what ever that may be. I need to do my work before anyone else does. The company I guess is so large and it has different divisions handling different aspects so it has not been feasible to get them to wait on me to do my work before they start especially since I am not on call 24/7 or even local to be able to get right there and do it.
The only possible solution they have found is to try and have me do the work before the well is staked. Obviously people are not going to go out there and spend 100k building a well pad on some guessed coordinates but I think the company thinks they can try doing my work prior to the stake because it is not that big of deal if it is in the wrong spot since I do not do much damage and it is relatively cheap compared to everything else they do.
I have been in contact with the surveyors that stake the wells and we think we may have it figured out. I think the surveyors are going to be able to provide me with coordinates of where they will be putting the stakes based on the calls as they have coordinates for all the corners in the area as they have drilled probably hundreds of wells there and have a pretty good database based upon prior field work.
> > Drilldo~ what a tough question. Seems like everyone is beating you up.
> Yes they are. I don't really get it because I am not doubting what people are saying and I am taking their advice.
The preferred drink around these parts 😉
> I have been in contact with the surveyors that stake the wells and we think we may have it figured out. I think the surveyors are going to be able to provide me with coordinates of where they will be putting the stakes
Data costs money. You don't pay for time, you pay for liability. You want the data, pay the guy.
Shortcut 1) Once they stake it, go get a way point with your handy dandy GPS. Locked & loaded & ready to rock. Then the ball is in your court, not Mr Surveyor.
Shortcut 2) Isn't one
> Yes they are. I don't really get it because I am not doubting what people are saying and I am taking their advice. All I did was ask a question. It may seem like a dumb question to you guys because that is the type of stuff you do everyday but to someone like me I was not sure.
Yeah... I don't get it. It wasn't a dumb question in my mind.
>
> As to the typical workflow I have no idea. This is for a huge company and if often seems one hand does not know what the other is doing. The whole problem we have been running into is it seems like several people or groups are waiting on the wells to be staked and as soon as they are they run out their and start doing their work what ever that may be. I need to do my work before anyone else does. The company I guess is so large and it has different divisions handling different aspects so it has not been feasible to get them to wait on me to do my work before they start especially since I am not on call 24/7 or even local to be able to get right there and do it.
Been there and done that. These big companies are difficult sometimes. You think they would make a coordinator or supervisor and develop a workflow so that things go smoothly, but they don't. And it is chaos. I've had the same issue too hence the many changes in workflow. I love the hurry, I got to have it today and then nothing happens for months. But I charge accordingly and they don't mind paying.
>
> The only possible solution they have found is to try and have me do the work before the well is staked. Obviously people are not going to go out there and spend 100k building a well pad on some guessed coordinates but I think the company thinks they can try doing my work prior to the stake because it is not that big of deal if it is in the wrong spot since I do not do much damage and it is relatively cheap compared to everything else they do.
>
> I have been in contact with the surveyors that stake the wells and we think we may have it figured out. I think the surveyors are going to be able to provide me with coordinates of where they will be putting the stakes based on the calls as they have coordinates for all the corners in the area as they have drilled probably hundreds of wells there and have a pretty good database based upon prior field work.
That does sound like you best solution. Just make sure you keep a damn good paper trail of everything because when SHTF, fingers will start pointing. And the one on the bottom of the ladder gets all the doo-doo!!!! Good luck with your adventure and I hope it works for you.
Go back to the basics.
Ask your client: Where do you want those test holes?
Can't provide this answer? Can't do the work.
> Go back to the basics.
>
> Ask your client: Where do you want those test holes?
>
> Can't provide this answer? Can't do the work.
True but I want to do the work. I also like challenges and solving problems. I do various things for this client that are in no way related. They view me as a get-r-done type of person.
Like I have said their surveyor is going to provide me coords so the problem is solved I think.
Thanks Scott
Thanks. I appreciate your helpful advice as well as that of others.
By the way I have been through raton dozens of times. I like that country. Seems like it would be a nice place to live.
> > Go back to the basics.
> >
> > Ask your client: Where do you want those test holes?
> >
> > Can't provide this answer? Can't do the work.
>
> True but I want to do the work. I also like challenges and solving problems. I do various things for this client that are in no way related. They view me as a get-r-done type of person.
>
> Like I have said their surveyor is going to provide me coords so the problem is solved I think.
I enjoy challenges, solving problems and getting it done.
But one thing I know: you're the man when the sun shines. When clouds roll in, different story. Nobody knows you when you are down and out, as the song goes.
Keep a good paper trail.
Thanks Scott
It is a nice place to live and survey. Kind of down because of the economy, but that is a whole nother topic that I won't start here. Wendell or Angel will BAN me. What area are you working in?
Thanks Scott
> It is a nice place to live and survey. Kind of down because of the economy, but that is a whole nother topic that I won't start here. Wendell or Angel will BAN me. What area are you working in?
I hear that. We work all over the place in multiple states. Right now we are in Kansas.
Last year was kind of slow for us but this year is going strong so far.
Late to this thread (well, I've been gone awhile) - suffice it to say you've had ample responses so no reason to re-poke a sufficiently dead bear.
A question I have (for anyone) would be are these ties - 'x' feet from this section line and 'y' feet from this section line - based on parallel offsets of the section lines (i.e., at 90d to the lines), or are they based on cardinal directions run from the section lines (i.e., 90d at point of intersection)? What are most people's take on this?
Seems a lot of states use section line footage ties as the basis of calcing lat / long or whatever Cartesian cords for wellheads, and I have run into little success duplicating the coord data from database or GIS systems.