The previous post concerning what the "F" or "C" meant on a grade stake was an eye-opener.?ÿ While the "resumes" of those that actually read our stakes are beyond our control; the quality of our staking is within our control.?ÿ And I have seen some poor?ÿstaking out there for sure.
Once upon a time in a former life I worked for the state highway department.?ÿ While my duties were confined to what was considered "pre-construction", I worked closely with the resident state crews that were in charge of such things as staking R/W and setting control for construction projects.?ÿ While there?ÿis a?ÿlot of stereotypical behavior attributed to government employees that, in my opinion, is based in fact; I knew these men and women to be astutely aware of the precision of their work.?ÿ In the last twenty years all of this layout work has been left up to private engineering contracts instead of state forces.
The other day I needed to stake a buried electric primary crossing of a proposed turnpike?ÿfor a client.?ÿ The plans seemed in order and it was reported to me the R/W had been staked.?ÿ After a bit of jockeying around I was able to get on the project grid and attempt to get some wood in the ground.?ÿ The first thing I noticed was there was no stationing on any of the R/W stakes (that I was able to find).?ÿ Several PIs in the R/W were just non-existent and the stakes that were in place were only within a few feet?ÿfrom where they really should have been..at their best.?ÿ It was a mess and looked as though the "R/W Staking" was a mere afterthought and done in a haphazardly manner.?ÿ Sad.
The consultant responsible for the project is a large local firm.?ÿ They have what I would have considered good surveying crews.?ÿ?ÿAll the folks over there that I use to know have retired.?ÿ I really hesitate to let?ÿthem know what I found; I really don't think it would do?ÿa damned bit of good.
I guess I'm just getting too old to be in this business...sometimes I look forward to the end of my days in the field.
I'm seeing the same things here in the office and with some of our field crews in general. I think it's throughout our industry and comes and goes with the work being offered. I agree though, it really is kind of sad.
I'm glad my son is working in this trade. I've tried to teach him what I believe are the best practices and thus far, they have done him well.
Keep on, keepin on
... Several PIs in the R/W were just non-existent and the stakes that were in place were only within a few feet?ÿfrom where they really should have been..at their best. ......
Something I found to be crazy common while I was in OK -it's probably the same wherever RTK is the primary locating tool -?ÿ was for crews to set up their RTK base over a known point but using an autonomous position for it.?ÿ If not that, then the reverse - the project control based on an autonomous position except for the RTK base keyed in from an OPUS report.?ÿ And combinations thereof.
I attribute the problem to the tendency to take any field hand that shows any initiative and/or ability and move them into the office. And to maintain a sharp division between field and office.?ÿ?ÿ
As our average age increases and our numbers decrease, quality curves diverge.
Where us old guys can still get around we share duties. We put out tremendous amounts of quality work and get paid well for it.
Where the old guy never leaves his chair all bets are off. If there are no check and follow-up processes in place the kids in the field learn things the hard way.
Our State just started a distance learning 4 year degree. The labs are done with local mentors. At rhe same time the Department of labor is providing a stipend for them to intern with established firms.
This wont end the decline in quality that some see. It is an opportunity to make a dent in it. Time will tell...
... Several PIs in the R/W were just non-existent and the stakes that were in place were only within a few feet?ÿfrom where they really should have been..at their best. ......
I attribute the problem to the tendency to take any field hand that shows any initiative and/or ability and move them into the office. And to maintain a sharp division between field and office.?ÿ?ÿ
A base that is ginning along on an autonomous location would surely explain the "3 to 5 feet" variances I found.?ÿ And if it was the consultant that prepared the plans staking this R/W that seems almost unforgivable.
The control was good. I was within 0.03' in a mile and for checks I was hitting all the topo I could find on the plans (MHs, culverts and utility pedestals) dead on.?ÿ There was no sense in those stakes being where they were.
It is hard enough to keep intelligent help in the field.?ÿ But like you noted, removing all the promising grey matter you can from the field only leaves a bunch of unsupervised?ÿhalf-wit monkeys out there?ÿburning gasoline.?ÿ Maybe it helps keep the labor cost down, but I doubt it.?ÿ
We run into those shifts with some network RTK users. They appear to be unaware of the impact that datum selection has on positioning...
Except for the multiple return trips to FIX it.
While I don't do staking anymore, I spent a number of years doing a whole lot of it at the start of my career.
I have also seen a general decline in the construction drawings.?ÿ Much of what was taken for granted as required for a good set of plans seems to be something that is no longer always included.?ÿ It used to be that you could get the printed layout plan for a small site and recreate the entire project from the plan in order to make your own layout file in CAD.?ÿ With missing dimensions and notes, a call for clarifications or a CAD file looks necessary more often now.
I wonder how much the decline in [fill in the blank for any aspect of surveying] has to do with a decline in crew mentoring due to smaller and smaller crews.?ÿ When I started, crews were generally already down to two or three people.?ÿ I was fortunate to work on crews early on which usually had a licensed surveyor with years of experience in the field.?ÿ I was able to glean much on the job learning from them as we worked on projects.
From what I observe, that situation has changed.?ÿ Now it seems that there is much quicker turn over from rodman up to party chief.?ÿ Many younger survey technicians might be sent out (even as a one person crew) because they are great with the modern high tech equipment, but they haven't been taught the finer points of good procedures or basic requirements.
I have heard of many times when the additional site visit needed, because of missed information, is simply something that happens frequently.?ÿ It is not used as an instructional time to explain why what was missed should have been part of the initial visit because companies are hurting for field crew members (who show up on a regular basis), so they settle for someone who can poke buttons but never remembers details from one job to the next.
It used to be that you could get the printed layout plan for a small site and recreate the entire project from the plan in order to make your own layout file in CAD.?ÿ With missing dimensions and notes, a call for clarifications or a CAD file looks necessary more often now.
I write it into my staking contracts that it's a requirement to receive CAD files of the design.?ÿ I don't have the time or energy to sit around rebuilding a site plan from line & curve tables even if it's only a half acre pad site.?ÿ Hell, if the CAD has alignments & profiles for the pipes I'll use those along with the feature lines for the curbs.?ÿ I check it all 6 ways from Sunday but man does it save a lot of time.?ÿ
With the proliferation of Civil3D (or Civil3D equivalent software) and instruments that can accept and stake from the data they create this is a trend that isn't going anywhere.?ÿ IMHO I'm better off creating processes to ensure quality layout from this data than I am griping to the Engineer about them not having a horizontal control plan in their CD's.?ÿ Like it or not I believe we are rapidly moving towards a time when the contract documents will be the CAD files and not a paper plan set.?ÿ?ÿ
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The plans seemed in order and it was reported to me the R/W had been staked.?ÿ
imagine that ..
A Caltrans construction surveyor recently reported that Construction Companies order a lot of stakes, far more than reasonably necessary, in the hopes the State will not get it all done in time and they can make a claim for extra costs. As a result they work a lot of extra overtime setting stakes in the ground on time.
Perhaps we are in a transition period with technology and it will get worse before it gets better.
Twenty years ago I was shocked to see people talking on their phones with driving, now they are watching cat videos and things have gotten worse but in twenty years the phone will be driving and things will be be better, maybe it is like that.
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Perhaps we are in a transition period with technology and it will get worse before it gets better.
Twenty years ago I was shocked to see people talking on their phones with driving, now they are watching cat videos and things have gotten worse but in twenty years the phone will be driving and things will be be better, maybe it is like that.
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That's a sobering hypothesis, but you might be on to something.?ÿ
I was appalled when I realized almost no customer service representative (what I call a cashier) could actually "make change" but only count out what the LCD display said.?ÿ Then there was the kid I hired (and quickly fired) that was "pretty sure" there was a law against me telling him to limit his cell phone use at work.
I couldn't find my brand of foot powder at Walgreen's the other day.?ÿ When I asked an employee to help me find it she asked if I had looked.?ÿ I said yes.?ÿ Then she told me if I didn't see it, they probably didn't have it.
I realize now that enduring the aging process is a battle of will.?ÿ There will come a day I am so completely disappointed that leaving?ÿthis world?ÿwill be a relief. ??ÿ
...that was "pretty sure" there was a law against me telling him to limit his cell phone use at work.
That made me laugh out loud!
What do you need stakes for anyway? Don't YOU PEOPLE have machine control?!
The unmanifest WILL become the manifest...
My dad lived to almost 95 and he said that growing old was not for whimps.
Ed
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I would just like the guys to use the proper colors for utility staking and marking.?ÿ Often times that means thinking ahead so that you don't need to use "the only color flagging I had in the truck".?ÿ It would also be great if the crews could write legibly on the stakes.?ÿ The stakes are sometimes the only representation of our company, let's make them look nice.
