I have a perspective client who contacted me for services.?ÿ ?ÿShe lives in Colorado and is looking to purchase land here in coastal North Carolina.?ÿ She has a map of a survey that was performed within the last 4 months.?ÿ This being coastal NC, there are both wetlands and flood areas on the map.?ÿ The wetlands were from a study that was conducted in 2005 when the subdivision was laid out.?ÿ ?ÿEither her builder or relator took a copy of the survey and "drew a box" somewhere in the middle of the lot as a hasty "site plan".?ÿ As it would happen, she didn't like the idea of a "not to scale" representation of her future home being arbitrarily drawn on a map, in the middle of the wetlands area.?ÿ So she wants me to produce a map using the existing survey, and adding a "to scale" building footprint to see if it can fit on the uplands area.?ÿ (this would circumvent the need of getting a costly soil scientist and wetlands delineator involved)?ÿ She also wants me to draw in the existing septic plan on the same map.?ÿ?ÿ
As I see it, she really wants a map that is a compilation of 3 separate maps/plans.?ÿ ?ÿWhat would you call this??ÿ ?ÿIs this even a survey or just a bunch of CAD work??ÿ ?ÿI've constructed precise maps from various sources of accurate and highly precise information before, but never as a licensed surveyor.?ÿ?ÿ
Thoughts?
Depending on your state's laws, of course, could it just be a Conceptual Site Plan, that may not necessarily need to be stamped, or would such a thing require a PE?
my $0.02
Do you have county regulations that would answer the question? Sixteen year old wetland delineation in a coastal area might need to be updated, but that's only my guess.
I was thinking of approaching it as a site plan.?ÿ If I took the job, I would probably go out and GPS 3 property corners so when I draft everything in CAD, it will all be on the same coordinate system.?ÿ Then I would stamp, certifying the coordinates/locations of the corners that I located.
"She also wants me to draw in the existing septic plan on the same map.?ÿ?ÿ
As I see it, she really wants a map that is a compilation of 3 separate maps/plans.?ÿ ?ÿWhat would you call this?"
In FL it would be called a preliminary site plan. If you proceed make sure you indicate the boundary survey was by "others", has not been verified by you, and the "Site Plan" is labeled "Preliminary/Proposed" until dimensions have been verified.
It would most likely be more beneficial for your client to use the original surveyor unless circumstances prohibit it. ?????ÿ
If you do decide to produce the drawing BE SURE to note where you got any information that was not supplied by you.?ÿ I have no problem placing my stamp on a drawing where I produced the boundary survey and added things obtained from others, BUT I make sure that others know that I take no responsibilty/liability for items provided by others.
Andy
Do you have county regulations that would answer the question? Sixteen year old wetland delineation in a coastal area might need to be updated, but that's only my guess.
@moe-shetty
I think the idea of having the map produced is to avoid the 2005 wetlands area altogether, if possible, and circumvent the expense of updating the wetlands delineation.?ÿ But I'll look into the regs and advise the potential client.?ÿ (I guess if I advise the "potential client", she, de facto, becomes my client) ?????ÿ
What you and FL/GA are saying is what I was thinking along the lines of, just wasn't sure how to say it, liability being the biggest issue.
It would most likely be more beneficial for your client to use the original surveyor unless circumstances prohibit it. ?????ÿ
I think that may be the case.?ÿ Everyone is extremely busy and backlogged. (4-6 months)
USACE approved wetland maps expire within 5 years, unless extension(s) approved (see below and exact cert is subject to revision by USACE).
From this thread, you've already gotten good input regarding your mapping efforts. I would inform your client about wetlands.
?ÿ
404 WETLANDS DELINEATION CERTIFICATE
THIS CERTIFIES THAT THIS COPY OF THIS PLAT ACCURATELY DEPICTS THE BOUNDARY OF THE JURISDICTION OF SECTION 404 OF THE CLEAN WATER ACT AS DETERMINED BY THE UNDERSIGNED ON THIS DATE. UNLESS THERE IS A CHANGE IN THE LAW OR OUR PUBLISHED REGULATIONS, THE DETERMINATION OF SECTION 404 JURISDICTION MAY BE RELIED UPON FOR A PERIOD NOT TO EXCEED FIVE (5) YEARS FROM THIS DATE. THE UNDERSIGNED COMPLETED THIS DETERMINATION UTILIZING THE APPROPRIATE REGIONAL SUPPLEMENT TO THE 1987 U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS WETLANDS DELINEATION MANUAL.
REGULATORY OFFICIAL: .
TITLE: .
DATE: .
USACE ACTION ID NO.: .
@andy-bruner?ÿ @FL/GA
The words "Preliminary", "Proposed", and "Plan" are no strangers to my work. ???? ????ÿ
@back-chain Thank you.?ÿ I'll inform my client.
I don't dabble in the CAMA counties very often at all, but last time I did around April of last year, this sort of thing required both a PE & a licensed soil scientist. Tread carefully & be ready to wait several months on CAMA as well as NCDEQ's stormwater division potentially if the subdivision is phase II stormwater regulated.?ÿ
?ÿ
also - the wetlands delineation for just a couple acres should not be a budget buster for someone looking to build a home. I won't prescribe rates but by the acre, I'm not seeing that being any worse around my part of NC than what surveyors have to charge. If it's a small lot figure maybe a half day's work & couple office hours for the report
You have a chance to make some money with little liability if you approach things with caution.
First, shoot in three or four FOUND monuments then STATE ON THE PLAT the presumed source of said monuments per survey plat such and such, filed at such and such repository.
Second,?ÿ note the obvious high ground both in your estimation and the location shown on the map you have been provided.?ÿ Show on the plat the PROPOSED location of the house (simple box with dimensions to boundary lines).
Third, show on the plat a safe area where the septic plan could be located.?ÿ Not necessarily a box but an entire area where a septic system could be placed.?ÿ Identify the area as such and then provide an APPROXIMATE AREA AVAILABLE TO SITUATE SEPTIC SYSTEM.
In our local septic plan requirements is guidance as to how much additional space is required per number of bedrooms or some such yardstick.?ÿ In your case, you are showing where such a system could be installed OR NOT.?ÿ If the space required is more than half of the available area based on your estimation, advise the client to have things done correctly by calling for what she might need to do whether or not you deliver what she is requesting.
Bill accordingly for your time up to the point she turns you loose to do it or decides to go the full route.
per cow's recommendation, follow NC's environmental health regulations for all setbacks (obviously including surface waters & jurisdictional areas). It'd be a great idea to make sure the local health dept and/or the soil scientist agrees with both the septic & repair areas
I'd tell her to contact the surveyor who did the recent survey.
Now is an ideal time to decide the type of work you want to do and the reputation you want to build for yourself.
I've done more than one elevation certificate/LOMA where the existing or planned house was more than 10 feet above the BFE with no basement (existing or planned) because the FEMA maps are so poor.?ÿ Tons of room to install a septic system if Mom and Pop had 19 kids.?ÿ Only took about 6 months of educating the new hires in DC last year on the most recent one.?ÿ They could not understand how it was possible that their mapping was not 100 percent correct.
They already have an approved septic plan drawn in relation to the property lines.?ÿ It's nowhere near the wetlands or flood zone.
?ÿ
USACE approved wetland maps expire within 5 years, unless extension(s) approved (see below and exact cert is subject to revision by USACE).
From this thread, you've already gotten good input regarding your mapping efforts. I would inform your client about wetlands.
?ÿ
404 WETLANDS DELINEATION CERTIFICATE
THIS CERTIFIES THAT THIS COPY OF THIS PLAT ACCURATELY DEPICTS THE BOUNDARY OF THE JURISDICTION OF SECTION 404 OF THE CLEAN WATER ACT AS DETERMINED BY THE UNDERSIGNED ON THIS DATE. UNLESS THERE IS A CHANGE IN THE LAW OR OUR PUBLISHED REGULATIONS, THE DETERMINATION OF SECTION 404 JURISDICTION MAY BE RELIED UPON FOR A PERIOD NOT TO EXCEED FIVE (5) YEARS FROM THIS DATE. THE UNDERSIGNED COMPLETED THIS DETERMINATION UTILIZING THE APPROPRIATE REGIONAL SUPPLEMENT TO THE 1987 U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS WETLANDS DELINEATION MANUAL.
REGULATORY OFFICIAL: .
TITLE: .
DATE: .
USACE ACTION ID NO.: .
Where did you get the information about the 5 year expiration??ÿ I've searched the USACE site and cannot seem to find it!
Thanx!
?ÿ
Here is the link to the Wilmington District Regulatory Division Wetlands Mapping Requirements. The aforementioned certificate with the five year expiration is included in the document.?ÿ
https://saw-reg.usace.army.mil/JD/SAW-Survey-Standards_10_6_2016.pdf