Thought I would toss this out there for you all to chew on a bit. Next time you could be the one getting this call.
Did a standard lot/block type survey in an old, established residential neighborhood about a year ago for a lady in her 60's. Plenty of existing monuments that fit together quite well. Pretty easy job. The only clinker was the neighbor to the south. He had been attempting to claim about seven feet of the client's 50-foot lot. Hard not to notice that much shrinkage on such a small lot. I do recall that the client's son and this neighbor had some bad blood going already.
Jump to about a month ago when the client's son called asking for help as he was about to start construction of a fence along the disputed line. I posted on this call because there was a single tree on the 130-foot line that prevented pulling a string line directly from one bar to the other. Told him to do an offset of about two feet, run his string line, then measure back over the two feet from the string line. He was thrilled and I was pleased not to do a tiny pain-in-the-butt type of job that you just can't charge enough for.
Jump to yesterday. The client leaves a message asking for any kind of help I can provide. The drug-crazed neighbor has put up do not trespassing signs all along his idea of the property line and has managed to get some sort of a "do-not-cross-this-line" type of legal order against the son based on some sort of physical disagreement they have had. Supposedly the neighbor has pulled the pins we set last year and moved them over to where he thinks they should be.
Do I:
1) Pretend my phone doesn't work?
2) Call and suggest she employ an attorney before doing anything else, including hiring me?
3) Call and suggest we will only work with a police officer present and that a video be made of the work process in addition to about 50 photos being taken that clearly show the newly set monuments and their relationship to other fixed objects?
4) Suggest she buy out the neighbor?
5) Suggest she sell out to anyone foolish enough to want to live next door to the drug-crazed neighbor?
6) Suggest she rent out her house to "The Meanest A-hole in the County".
No. 2.
I'd say tell her that her options are 2 or 3 except that the neighbor has gone legal so 2 is her only option other than give up.
If he has already brought legal proceedings into the mix then I would also tell him to get his attorney on this and let's get this ironed out.
Once all that is cleared then let's get the property line established.
Even better, if monumentation is good and you don't want to do the work bc it's small, have the attorneys get a mutual surveyor or his surveyor to do the line. Should be no dispute if it's straight foward.
If you do go ahead and try to stake the line right now I suggest making sure your life insurance policy is up to date before proceeding. [emoji23]
2 and 3. Pictures will help, so I would have them take as many as they can and video.
Number 3, The enforcement of this order would be a police officer who would than become a witness to the actual boundary line location.
Holy Cow, post: 375507, member: 50 wrote:
Do I:
1) Pretend my phone doesn't work?
2) Call and suggest she employ an attorney before doing anything else, including hiring me?
3) Call and suggest we will only work with a police officer present and that a video be made of the work process in addition to about 50 photos being taken that clearly show the newly set monuments and their relationship to other fixed objects?
4) Suggest she buy out the neighbor?
5) Suggest she sell out to anyone foolish enough to want to live next door to the drug-crazed neighbor?
6) Suggest she rent out her house to "The Meanest A-hole in the County".
Expanding on your options:
1) THIS IS AN ETHICAL NO GO AT THIS POINT!!
2) Call and suggest she employ an attorney before doing anything else and ask to be included in the initial attorney review of the problem. You will be better equipped to explain the survey results and previous occupation than the property owner.
3) Given your knowledge that "The drug-crazed neighbor has put up do not trespassing signs all along his idea of the property line and has managed to get some sort of a "do-not-cross-this-line" type of legal order against the son . . ." Ask the attorney to determine if you are also restrained by the order and suggest that it would be safer to survey with a police officer present. Also ask if a video of the work process in addition to about 50 photos being taken that clearly show the newly set monuments and their relationship to other fixed objects would be advisable as evidence for possible court proceedings? The attorney may have contacts with firms that make such exhibits and testify as to the content of the video and photos.
Since it appears there is already attorney/court involvement you must prepare to document every step for presentation in court.
I think it's 3.
The do-not-cross-this-line, even if by restraining order. You (policeman onsite) have been asked to mark the location of 'this' line. The line referred to in the restraining order, not the imaginary line. That way the police know what line, which crossing, constitutes a violation. And it's for fence construction.
I suspect the do not cross order applies to both parties. So the neighbor needs to be shown his limit of ownership, witnessed by the police, and therefore the boundary of the restraining order. This way the cops will be informed. And the cops are going be called.
Photos and video assumed.
You missed 7 and 8. Set a 4' rb, 3' down w cap, and have your pistol handy. Build your fence.
Recently a client had us set monuments every 20' along the agreed upon line. Deeds overlapped but was settled in court. So, wasn't a brawl or anything.
3 is the one I would go with. Had to deal with a similar situation not to long ago. All it took was a deputy sheriff and the crazy neighbor went inside and left everyone alone.
There is an option, you have not yet explored.
Sneak over to the bad side of town, find some teenagers, and hire them to "rough up" things. This gets all the attention, and they might forget about you. (that's how modern politicians do it!)
OK, just kidding.
You could (since you are rich, and all that stuff) just buy both places. And, rent them to your lowlife cousins kids, and maybe everybody will leave you alone. (Another bad idea, as you are not rich, and Your cousin is richer than you are, except in experience!)
What you heck are you asking questions like this, on this forum for, if you don't at least get some BAD ADVICE!?
I know, for myself, I'd pray about, it, and then consider sending it to the biggest pain-in-the-neck surveyor you know. Complete, with is business card, and telephone number. I mean, go to this other surveyor, GET SOME of HIS CARDS, and sneak over, and put them on the door of this "client". You know, get some "Competition" going. See if you can lowball him now!
Naw, maybe you'd better get your wife's advice!! Set the corners in concrete.
Maybe find out what kind of dope these feinds like.... and find out what their dope cycles are... ie, when their welfare checks come in, and get your survey done on that day, and hand them the bill then, and demand payment then, before they buy dope.
I can think of more awful advice, if you like! Say, is your burial insurance paid up?
Some jobs are best left for somebody else.
N
I think I'd have to go with 2. Resetting the corners would be a waste of time at this point, because the neighbor would just pull them again. With some type of restraining order in place, the police might not be too willing to help you get the survey done without the court's approval.
I would suggest number two and refrain from performing further work until the disagreement is resolved. This is a civil issue and I doubt law enforcement would be willing to participate until a court order is mandated.
[sarcasm]Run, Forest, Run[/sarcasm]
I've had great success at setting tear away monuments.
Set a 1in pipe with the top 0.5ft subsurface as the stable portion and insert a rebar inside that reaches 0.1ft from the surface.
Used chain-link pipe posts cut in half with concrete still intact make perfect stable monuments. Dig a post hole to the necessary depth and size to have the concrete at the bottom. No pulling that up, it will take digging for it to disappear, like they will ever know it is there. The sacrificial rebar is all that shows.
Bring plenty of witness and the law if that is what it takes.
0.02
There's a cheap way to do that. I carry a hack saw in the atv, 100% of the time. (Unless the kids stole 'borrowed' it, but that's another long story)
Drive a 1/2" rebar, leaving it up 6 to 8".
Score, or cut into the rebar, at ground level. Hard ground, score it less. Soft, score it nearly through.
To make it into a break off marker.
Or, set a 3/8" piece first, (so the top is maybe 6" or so deep) then drive a 1/2" rebar.
I have had these pulled, and moved. Before.
D. None of the above (actually a modified number 2)
I would ask the client to send me a copy of the 'order' to see if it was legit. Many lawyers specialize in intimidation, and they can buffalo the average citizen. Before you start with the flamethrower, this isn't so I can tell them how to proceed. It's so I can let them know what my involvement is likely to be. Advising them of their rights in a matter is practicing law. Telling them what to expect from me is good business. My 'advice' would be limited to convincing them not to use the family tax attorney or 'uncle vinnie', and maybe giving a name or two of an attorney I trust.
The second issue is the matter of removing monuments. If he's convinced he's right there is a good chance he will readily admit 'putting them where they belong'. That's a 1500 dollar fine here. Don't go all Dick Tracy and pursue this on your own. We pay taxes so others can take care of it.
Last but not least is my standard disclaimer. Inform your client that court orders are generally not sufficient to stop bullets, knives, shovels or whatever a tweaker might send your way. A court win does not stop the guy from being a moron so proceed with caution.
Good luck, Tom
I'd say 2, followed up with 3, with a proviso. Attorney sends notice to neighbor that a fence is being built, giving him a reasonable opportunity to lawyer up himself, and maybe have his own survey done. You meet the cop and the fencing crew on site and stake out, and the fence is built immediately, before the neighbor has a chance to move your pins again. Tough to move a whole fence without attracting attention.
Brace yourself for the state board complaint.
You don't need to take every job, especially the ones that pump up your blood pressure.
She called again and caught me answering my phone. We had a lovely chat. I explained that I would help her IF I COULD. First, she needs to get an attorney on board and have that attorney contact me to discuss my actions a year or two ago and what I will and will not be willing to do to possibly resolve the issue, at least in this lady's mind. I'm positive anything I do will not resolve the issue in the neighbor's mind. We discussed having the local police department present. As I pointed out, I could set the most durable monuments imaginable but silly people with really big ideas can still destroy or remove them entirely in the middle of the night. I will let her attorney address the concept of any rights the neighbor might possibly have that are not resolved by simple measurements on the ground.
This has been an interesting discussion so far. More input will be appreciated as this situation is still in flux.
