How many corners would you monument?

F) Depends.

Posted by: @jitterboogie

On what other considerations?

What points and lines does your client want set?

Posted by: @peter-ehlert

Assume the client only cares about locating corners of the 40 acres and it is flat enough to see from corner to corner so doesn't need additional markings.

In Idaho all controlling corners that were set in an original survey, plus the center quarter must be found or set and corner records filed. Typically that's going to be everything to the quarter corner level. We do have a lot of 16th corners set by the BLM/GLO. Those that control would need to be found or set and corner records filed

That does depend largely on that State's minimum standards.?ÿ That sad part is that too many calculate a bunch of corners and set new monuments but do absolutely no searching in the area of each to discover existing monuments.?ÿ A big part of this is a result of corner records being filed in the past few decades.?ÿ Youngsters assume if no corner record has been recorded with some State-level repository then there must not be anything to search for in the first place.?ÿ Wrong, wrong, wrong, especially in a recording state.?ÿ Go to the local survey repository and search for everything in your section and the abutting sections first. Nope, not going to happen, especially when someone in a remote office location is directing the project and is attempting to maximize company profits.

If you want to be a surveyor, be a student of the history of the job area first.?ÿ Any buttonpusher can puke out numbers, but a true surveyor finds the truth ahead of finding the numbers.

Like or not the whole section has to be surveyed to correctly establish the parcel described with the prevailing circumstances. ?????ÿ

Yes, the entire section needs to be surveyed and searches made near each potential controlling corner, both quarter corners and quarter-quarter corners.?ÿ This may require serious digging for stones and similar very old monuments that will not have a ferrous signature.?ÿ Evidence of how the land has been used needs to be considered in agricultural areas, every time, not just when it is convenient.?ÿ Try to put yourself in the shoes of the first people who had to divvy up the land.?ÿ Do not allow office workers to create quotes to potential clients.?ÿ As a rule, they have no idea of what a real surveyor needs to do in the real world in order to arrive at a defendable truth.

Correct monumentation for the NE1/16 corner:

Working on the section again in the SW1/4

Before anyone begins a mathematical split of a section they need to evaluate the true source of the control points they have found.?ÿ In the above example, it is possible none of the four section corner monuments are the originals set in the 1800's.?ÿ Each one may be someone's best guess to help them with the task they have at the time, which may well be in one of the abutting sections to your section.?ÿ They were probably set independently by various surveyors at very different times.?ÿ Then when you start working the section and you begin to find monuments that don't agree with your perfect math, what do you do??ÿ If you automatically call them to be erroneous, you need to get some additional education.?ÿ They may correct and one or more of the ones you started from may be wrong.?ÿ Oops!

@bill93

in that case: as a minimum I need to determine the -positions- of the 4 1/4 corners and the NE of the section. The center, probably not.
In this case technically I would only "need" to markup the existing NE corner and the 3 new corners... that's assuming the NE 1/4 was not subdivided at a prior time.

in the real world, I of course would again visit the locations of the missing 4 1/4 corners and would set -something durable- for searching and posterity.
--not a project requirement, but since I am there anyway, why not?

Have I ever found a section in this condition and this minimal solution to be acceptable? Nope, never.

Posted by: @bill93

Suppose you are to split out the NE 1/4 of the NE 1/4 of a regular PLSS section. You find all the section corners but no quarter corner, center, or other monuments. No significant occupation lines.

How many monuments would you set, in addition to the corners of the 40 acres (and the road ROW intersections of its lines, if any)?

A) None, because you didn't need to occupy any other points.

B) None, and you didn't even need to analyze any other positions.

C) The quarter corners and center, because you had to use their positions in the analysis.

D) The quarter, center, and thother 16th in this quarter section

E) Other.

?ÿ

This question has often come up in workshops/conferences. It would certainly be state specific. Some states ( I have no idea how many) would require you to set all the corners which you had to use (calculated or otherwise) in order to calculate your 40 acre parcel corners. This would mean all the 1/4 corners including the center of section and the other 2 1/16 corners in the NE corner.?ÿ

As others have pointed out, this situation would almost never happen. I have never seen a section that did not have any evidence of the location of some of the missing corner locations. Good discussion question though.?ÿ

My first response is that if I set the corners, then it increases the likelihood that the next guy in the section follows my survey. That increases the chances of us all fit together.

As far as protecting the client and the public, setting controlling corners is a good idea. But, there are always limits to this, mainly having to do with access to the positions and budgets.

What is demanded by law would vary from state to state.

-David

I dislike the phrase "split out" for some reason. Perhaps its a regional thing. That said, we should consider what the parent parcel is, what section this is, and if the client actually wants a "split" (there I go) because there might be an easier way to accomplish the task with a lot less effort/cost depending on what is available to work with.?ÿ?ÿ

Posted by: @dpuffett .

As others have pointed out, this situation would almost never happen. I have never seen a section that did not have any evidence of the location of some of the missing corner locations. Good discussion question though.?ÿ

It happens a lot in more unpopulated areas where each private parcel covers many sections and most of the land is public.?ÿ

In California it is common to set dimension points (in other words no monument set) at remote corners which control, especially quarter section corners and one-sixteenth corners.

I did a big survey last summer, the unset quarter section corner per a 1973 Record of Survey map was set by me because it is a boundary corner of our State Forest.?ÿ Run south a half mile to a found section corner then continue another half mile to a dimension point.?ÿ I set that one too although we didn't have to.?ÿ Half mile is far enough to expect a Forester to follow a boundary in future decades without a monument.

@holy-cow

AMEN!!