I have received many calls from folks who want their corners and lines marked. However when I tell them it would require a re-survey of their property that is where it usually goes off the rails. They inform me they are not gonna pay for another survey and usually demand just corners and lines.
During this I learn that the survey they refer to was one preformed decades ago for someone else and they are often several land transactions removed from the original survey.
So this rarely goes much further because at this point I inform them that while they have a copy of the record survey they themselves have not actually paid for a survey and in order for me to determine the corners and lines I would have to re-survey their property.
Have you received anything like this and how do you respond?
People think by analogy.?ÿ If their car won't start they are willing to pay for a new battery, but they don't want the mechanic to do an engine and transmission overhaul.?ÿ?ÿ If they have sore throat they don't want the doctor to order a full suite of blood tests, a colonoscopy, and an MRI.
If the laws for mechanics and doctors were like the laws for surveyors they would have to pay for all those things every time.?ÿ That is hard for people to accept when they just want to know where to put the fence.
If I make a mistake and your improvements are in the wrong location because I cut a corner and did not complete my efforts to full diligence, will you sue me for just the cost of the corners and lines?
Do you want it right or do you want it cheap? XYZ down the road will do it cheap and is sometimes right.?ÿ (Probably too far)
You can have two out of three, time, price and quality.?ÿ Quality is not an option.
If it were that easy, engineers would be allowed to survey boundaries.
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It's easy for me in NC. I tell them that I am required, under threat of administrative penalty, to perform a retracement survey anytime I offer my professional opinion of the location of a boundary line. A retracement requires precise and accurate measurements, deed research of the subject parcel and all adjoining parcels, a tie to NC Grid, and the resetting of lost or obliterated corner monuments, among other things.?ÿ?ÿ
I then tell them that this service instantly increases the value of their property by establishing a sort of legal fence around it and by allowing the owner to sell it more quickly and at a greater price.
This works more than half the time in conjunction with being polite, patient, and listening carefully so that the client never has to repeat themselves.
I like Bill's analogy because that describes me to a T.?ÿ A buddy was telling me a few days ago about his daughter's car.?ÿ Someone smacked her front left turn signal in a parking lot.?ÿ The fee was $800 to replace the lens and bulb due to the idiotic design which required major work to do what should have been a five minute fix.?ÿ I could feel the pain because I have a broken lens but the bulb stills works.?ÿ I checked it out and the standard fee to replace the lens is $200.
First you jack up the vehicle, pull off the wheel, rip out the wheel well sheeting.?ÿ Finally reach the means to start to remove the lens holding mechanism and wiring connection.?ÿ A bunch of profit for the manufacturer of the component parts and some mechanic who actually has experience with that make and model.
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Sometimes we get overly greedy with simple things.
I once worked for a guy who price quoted boundary surveys based on the express assumption that monuments of previous surveys were present in their original positions and in substantial agreement with the record.?ÿ He then had a schedule of additional costs to repair the inevitable shortcomings.?ÿ ?ÿNaturally it was a very rare survey that was done for the base price.
That is a typical model for tradesmen. A professional would give the customer a reasonable expectation of the 'extras' they are likely to encounter. Nothing wrong with charging for the unforseen, but making that your typical job is just slimey..
This fellow was anything but slimey.?ÿ The client was made well aware of the potential issues ahead of time. It was just a method of making the client appreciate why the price was higher than expected.?ÿ
Gotcha. It sounded like you were saying he cheaped out and hit them with the extras. I know guys that do that knowing full well some of the extras were coming. IMO that is slimeball, liesure suit, used car saleman stuff. We are professionals and ought to act like it..
Those are the ones that refused to pay $xxxx extra to mark their lines at the time of survey 10 years ago. Now they want someone else to come mark them for 1/3 or 1/2 $xxxx.?ÿ
There is a breed of guys out there that have some equipment and were not able to pass their state license test that follows an actual survey and gets out their "Beep Beep" GPS unit and wanders thru the forest marking a ?straight? line for the landowner.
I've had adjoiners and clients contact me to accuse me of staking boundaries that had some angle points in it after they had hired a surveyor to survey their land for mortgage reasons and all I could do was let them know that I surveyed JoeSmo's land and he did not have me to mark the boundary thru the forest.
I always set a hard to get tpost that costs much more than at most ranch shops and if it is not my tpost set and located and shows on my drawing then they came from some scab surveyor.
I'm curious about these hard to get tposts you describe, how are they different from a regular metal tpost?
Can you post a pic?
One type is orange, another is red with a white top, another has purple posting paint and all are a heavier post, more like a 2lb per foot model as most are around 1.25lb per foot.
Lets say I did a survey a week ago and one of the lath got knocked down, I would go out and re lath the rebar for free.?ÿ Lets say I did the survey and 3 years latter that want the corners found again.?ÿ I'd probably go out and do that, not resurvey it other than cloth tape things as a check, and send them a bill for a few hundred dollars.?ÿ Lets say the survey is 20 years old and someone else did it.?ÿ I'm going to resurvey it and charge them for it.?ÿ You just have to convey this to the person and try to get them to understand.?ÿ Part of our job is educating the public.?ÿ Of course some people don't want to hear it.
Have you received anything like this and how do you respond?
All the time, I use a simple analogy
"10 years ago you went to a doctor and received a diagnosis and script for your problem. Today you think you have the same problem but that doctor is no longer around. You want me to diagnose you and write a new script without an examination. I can not do so legally"
If there is an actual recorded survey, then the work would be relatively easy, I just give them a real bid. Never apologize for what you are worth.
In response to those that think that this can be done without a survey... I don't understand how you could identify the corners of the subject property without doing a survey.
How would that work?
Say you find some rebar and caps or Tpost or monuments and they look like they are probably original - they've even got original markings: Can you legitimately say that those are the corners of the subject property without measuring their location?
There could be situations where the record identifies accessories or calls to physical features which allow you to confirm that the rebar/tpost/mon is in-fact the corner without doing a survey. In the parts I've worked in, this would be the exception and not the rule.
I legitimately won't know if the possible corner marker from the prior survey is in-fact the corner of record unless I survey in it's location.?ÿ
We've all seen situations where Mr. X was planting a tree/building a fence/walkway/driveway/digging a drainage ditch etc. and they simply move that marker to a safer location - out of the way of their project. Ever seen a dog tied to a rebar with a cap?
Identifying property corners without a survey??ÿ It's a VERY rare case when that can be done legitimately.
I tell them to call my surveyor friend down the street. I offer the phone number of course.
The next time I see my surveyor friend I ask if he's had any good calls lately.
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Never apologize for what you are worth.
It is sometimes hard to fight the brain on this one but, these are wise words. Someone else on this mecca of survey (and real-world) wisdom said, and I paraphrase, I've never had any problems with a job I didn't do.
So if you're devaluing your estimates because they just "seem to high", remember that last job you did that went sideways. How much did you trim off that back-of-napkin estimate before you put it down on letterhead??ÿ
Most folks around here understand a survey is needed, even if they have a 20 year old plan in hand. For the one's who don't understand, I tell them I have to check the other guy's work. I can't take it at face value. I'm the one responsible for the new markers being set - new plan being drawn - whatever they are asking for. The state regulations hold me accountable to get it right, so I have to do enough deed research, locate monuments, etc. in order to take responsibility.
