What is usually the ideal setup? What particular model for the base and for the rover? What radio components are required? Any equipment list?
Thank you.
amdomag, post: 422285, member: 1683 wrote: What is usually the ideal setup? What particular model for the base and for the rover? What radio components are required? Any equipment list?
Thank you.
PM sent
Jim Frame, post: 422041, member: 10 wrote: There's an incentive in that generating interest will tend to generate sales, but at the same time I believe they're all genuinely enthusiastic about the products and use them in their own work.
I was in the field this morning and having trouble with a localization, so I called Shawn (though I could have called John, or Adam, or one of the others). He connected to my LS -- which was connected to the internet through my phone -- saw what I'd done wrong, and had me going again in about 5 minutes. That kind of support is hard to put a value on.
Hi Jim!
How do you find your Javad perform under heavy canopy?
Thank you.
Regards,
Arnel
It is quite good under canopy.
If you took a single engine GPS, to a poor place, got a fix, saved it, and picked it up, twirled it around a time or two, and set it back up, got another fix, and repeated this 10x, THEN, let it sit with the fix for 3 min, and then picked it up and twirled it around again, and got one LAST fix, and then SAVED all those shots, and then used a weighted average of those 900 epochs, and then STORED that ONE coord, you'd have manually performed what the LS does in an automated way. That's what the LS does. And, it also stores a screen shot, of the pile of coords, so you can see all the shot spread, of all 900 epochs. It does allow a few outliers to be thrown out.... but it is pretty bullet proof.
N
Nate The Surveyor, post: 422307, member: 291 wrote: It is quite good under canopy.
If you took a single engine GPS, to a poor place, got a fix, saved it, and picked it up, twirled it around a time or two, and set it back up, got another fix, and repeated this 10x, THEN, let it sit with the fix for 3 min, and then picked it up and twirled it around again, and got one LAST fix, and then SAVED all those shots, and then used a weighted average of those 900 epochs, and then STORED that ONE coord, you'd have manually performed what the LS does in an automated way. That's what the LS does. And, it also stores a screen shot, of the pile of coords, so you can see all the shot spread, of all 900 epochs. It does allow a few outliers to be thrown out.... but it is pretty bullet proof.N
This is very interesting. How about the product construction? The buttons, ports, housing, etc?
As a Leica user, I am convinced with how every instrument is built when it comes to construction.
Well, Amdomag, it comes with a 3 yr warranty.
It has a VERY hard and tough screen. (I think it's one of those semi unbreakable cell phone screens)
The buttons are some sort of silicone.
The LS is a cobbled together:
Metal or magnesium chassis.
2 user replaceable batteries, in the back. (back is the side opposite the screen)
GPS antenna on top.
Bluetooth antenna on back.
2 radio antennas on back.
Usb and power port on sides.
LAN port on side.
Memory Stick on back.
All ports have silicon type waterproof covers.
Windows 7 inside.
No hard drive.
Electronic compass.
Tilt sensor.
Light on bottom. Good for night work.
Speaker. It makes noises, to keep you in touch with what it's doing.
It has a microphone. You can record audio point descriptions.
It is a classic cobbled together pile of parts.
1/4" camera screw on bottom. Uses an adapter, to get to 5/8"x11.
I'm not worried about it's ruggedness.
The t2 is not as tough. But, it's just a base. I found bird turds on mine the other day. I cleaned it.
N
Nate The Surveyor, post: 422337, member: 291 wrote: Well, Amdomag, it comes with a 3 yr warranty.
It has a VERY hard and tough screen. (I think it's one of those semi unbreakable cell phone screens)
The buttons are some sort of silicone.
The LS is a cobbled together:
Metal or magnesium chassis.
2 user replaceable batteries, in the back. (back is the side opposite the screen)
GPS antenna on top.
Bluetooth antenna on back.
2 radio antennas on back.
Usb and power port on sides.
LAN port on side.
Memory Stick on back.
All ports have silicon type waterproof covers.
Windows 7 inside.
No hard drive.
Electronic compass.
Tilt sensor.
Light on bottom. Good for night work.
Speaker. It makes noises, to keep you in touch with what it's doing.
It has a microphone. You can record audio point descriptions.
It is a classic cobbled together pile of parts.
1/4" camera screw on bottom. Uses an adapter, to get to 5/8"x11.
I'm not worried about it's ruggedness.
The t2 is not as tough. But, it's just a base. I found bird turds on mine the other day. I cleaned it.
N
How about the F2F feature? I am interested on how it performs on lineworks in connection to Civil 3D. Is it as good as SurvCE or Fieldgenius when it comes to F2F? Any movie clip showing how F2F is done in Javad environment?
Thank you.
Regards,
Arnel
I'm not a F2F User. I bought it strictly due to it's muscle in the pines. It'll sit and chew up a shot almost anyplace, and since it has 864 channels, it does it pretty fast.
But, it does do linework in the field. And, you can upload line work into it. DXF. I have not yet done it.
I don't think it is as sophisticated as Carlson F2F. But, that is not from experience. Just listening to others.
Somebody else will have to answer you.
N
Nate The Surveyor, post: 422344, member: 291 wrote: I'm not a F2F User. I bought it strictly due to it's muscle in the pines. It'll sit and chew up a shot almost anyplace, and since it has 864 channels, it does it pretty fast.
But, it does do linework in the field. And, you can upload line work into it. DXF. I have not yet done it.
I don't think it is as sophisticated as Carlson F2F. But, that is not from experience. Just listening to others.
Somebody else will have to answer you.
N
Thank you for sharing. Javad GNSS is indeed an interesting piece of technology.
amdomag, post: 422342, member: 1683 wrote: How about the F2F feature? I am interested on how it performs on lineworks in connection to Civil 3D. Is it as good as SurvCE or Fieldgenius when it comes to F2F? Any movie clip showing how F2F is done in Javad environment?
Thank you.
Regards,
Arnel
I'm not a civil 3d user so I'm not sure but I would think as long as the point is described in accordance with your code list in civil it should work. I use Carlson in the office and simply describe the point exactly like I did when I use Survce and export a text file to import into Carlson. I then tap draw f2f and bam there's my linework. Lines and curves can also be drawn in Jfield with out the need for line strings and special codes and then exported as a DWG or dxf.
amdomag, post: 422355, member: 1683 wrote: Thank you for sharing. Javad GNSS is indeed an interesting piece of technology.
Here's a link to the dealer map: http://www.javad.com/jgnss/sales/dealers/index.html
Click on an icon and it will give you contact information. Maybe we'll see a new icon with your name in the Philippines eventually:)
Nate,
This remote support is not new, and not limited to only Javad. It just that others vendors do not in have this integrated.
I have been doing remote virtual support using GoToAssist and TeamViewer for years with many different software such as Magnet Field, Pocket3d, MicroStation, InRoads, Carlson Survey and Pix4d.
Lee, I think you meant Jim Frame, not me.
Also, I want someone to go do a "Side by side" with me in the woods.
The DOWN side to the Javad is that the software in the Javad is still in DEVELOPMENT.
The UP side to the Javad is that the software is still in DEVELOPMENT.
About 15 times, since I have had the equipment, the SOFTWARE has messed up.
This has caused DELAYS, of typically a couple of hrs, and a couple of times, a day.
The team has ALWAYS come through, and gotten the data fixed for me.
BUT
The software has grown tremendously, in the yr and a half, since I got it.
Off the top of my head, this has changed:
TONS of cogo was added.
Ability automatically do POST PROCESSED, and RTK, together in the field. IF radio link is down, due to hill shadow, or long distance, I can still get a Post Processed Shot.
DPOS now processes:
Base to Rover.
Cors to Base
Cors to Rover
And, can include the base, in the processing of Cors to Rover, strengthening it.
One Base, can support multiple rovers, WITH Post Processing. (This is currently in development, but is getting smoothed out). It does work right now. But, it is not as slick as it will be.
The metal detector was added.
The mechanism for taking shots in BAD locations was improved by a mile... IF it gets the wrong init group, it fully automatically sorts it out, and starts again, without a complete start over. This is a drastic improvement in efficiency. It USED to completely start over, if it proved that it had the wrong init. It does not do this now... It SAVES all groups, as it works, and simply goes BACK to the strongest group, and starts again, WITH some of the original data. This provides the TIME separation necessary to sort it out, and fully prove the shot. Verify is great. I have YET to get it to lie to me, with verification, turned on. This was a huge improvement, and time saver. I have TRIED to break it. Really hard.
What else has been added? Offset shots. 3 way D/D/D "Resection".
I have for sure left off something, but IF they keep at it.... at the rate of the last year and a half... it will be great.
N
How much canopy can this Javad LS handle? Anyone tried it in dense redwood forests?
roger_LS, post: 422515, member: 11550 wrote: How much canopy can this Javad LS handle? Anyone tried it in dense redwood forests?
It's not magic. Aside from the number of engines that are constantly working on integer solutions, I'd be surprised if the Triumph-LS is significantly more sensitive than any other current-generation receiver. What makes it stand out is the software that performs quality control. As Nate indicated, it automates a highly customizable QC process that allows the user to confidently resolve positions under challenging conditions.
I often use my LS with a GPS-only RTN, and there have been plenty of times that a reliable position just wasn't going to happen. I could have gotten *a* shot in those cases had I been willing to relax the QC requirements, but the receiver made it clear that I wasn't going to get one I could count on being right. (In a fair percentage of those cases I probably could have gotten a reliable shot had I been running my own base, which would have added GLN to the mix.)
Jim Frame, post: 422521, member: 10 wrote: I'd be surprised if the Triumph-LS is significantly more sensitive than any other current-generation receiver.
This point is a point of considerable thought to me.
Is this objectively true, or not?
I can say that when you stack up how many times during a verified boundary shot it goes fixed, and looses fix, and regains fix, as compared to my legacy e system, it is WAY more sensative, and way faster than the legacy e, even on it's best day. And, I demoed my legacy e for others, and they all said that the legacy e was the best they had seen, in this department.
I'd like to do some objective side by side testing of this very thing, with any other brand, current model.
I have my suspicions, but I'd prefer facts.
And, I think it'd be fun.
I could be persuaded to change brands, if i could find something signifigantly better. I'm a SURVEYOR first, then a gps user.
Curiosity.
Anybody want to go test?
I'd love it.
N
Nate The Surveyor, post: 422555, member: 291 wrote: as compared to my legacy e system, it is WAY more sensative, and way faster than the legacy e
I said "current-generation" for a reason: you can't expect a 10-year-old (when was the Legacy E introduced?) RTK system to work as well as a new one. The advances in processing algorithms have been substantial in the intervening years.
The comparison to other units, was done with the Legacy E units, against Topcon Hipers, and the Legacy E was better in the woods, than the Hipers, even though TheE's were older. We ASSUMED at the time, that the reason that the E's were better, was due to some sort of loss, when condensing it into a smaller, handier package (Hipers). When electronics are modular, and separated, some things interfere with each other less.
The guy that owned the Hipers also owned a Legacy E unit. I borrowed the hiper for a while, and did my own comparison.
I'd just like to find out. Of course, the automatic QC in the LS is great... but I'd be happy without it, IF it were not needed.
I'm just a surveyor, who wants solid data.
N
Ps, all this was about 4 or 5 yrs ago, so, yes, it needs UPDATED.
Phil Hartman used to do a sketch on Saturday Night Live called caveman lawyer. He'd always be in court making a final argument and he'd start off with "I'm just a caveman. Your world frightens me. But I do know...." and he'd finish up with some sophisticated argument for his client.
I'm just a surveyor and I don't understand a lot of the mechanics under the hood of RTK. I survey in canopy a lot. After using the LS for a few years now, I've come to expect that in almost all cases, it will deliver a verified fix if given the time. I have not used all receivers and even if I had, developers are making steady improvements to firmware, making comparisons a moving target.
In the past two years I've seen substantial improvements to the already good performance of the LS. This tells me that there is ongoing room for improvement in the algorithms producing fixed integer ambiguities.
But beyond the statistical work being done to get a good fix, there is also the matter of antenna quality and signal processing. In multipath environments, the receiver must determine which signal is multipath and which is direct.
I've read on this board that all manufacturers give about the same quality result. In the open or even under light canopy this is true to some extent. When you push them under heavy canopy you will see differences.
leegreen, post: 422392, member: 2332 wrote: Nate,
This remote support is not new, and not limited to only Javad. It just that others vendors do not in have this integrated.
I have been doing remote virtual support using GoToAssist and TeamViewer for years with many different software such as Magnet Field, Pocket3d, MicroStation, InRoads, Carlson Survey and Pix4d.
To be fair Leica and Trimble launched the same thing (ability to control the logger from the office). and then quietly dropped it when it didn't work...
