Today I received a request for a proposal for a boundary survey in downtown St. Augustine, Florida. The property, which was approximately 1/2 an acre, was platted back in 1936. It bordered on a state road to the north and a tidal river to the east. Additionally, the client said he was in a hurry to get the survey done and needed it completed in the next few days.
I really spent my time on this one, doing my research to determine exactly how much work would be needed to perform the survey. Eventually I came up to the conclusion of $2,400.
The guy just called and wondered why the hell I was so different than the $350 quote he received. I attempted to explain the research and due dilligence necessary to determine his boundary, but he wasn't interested in hearing it. We agreed to disagree.
My point in writing this post is two fold. One, I want to convey the following (my personal thoughts to the surveyor who said he would perform the survey for 350 bucks): You are a douchebag. (Ok, I feel better now)
Second, and more importantly, it's clear that the public has no idea of what we do. I consistently hear more of "I only need four corners staked" comments coming up from the public. How can we educate them on what we do? I hate to say it, but it appears that we are considered more of a necessary evil to them than we are as a professional need.
If any of you have been able to educate the public, please feel free to share your experiences. I could really use the help.
Thanks!
How do you educate the public? Get out there and do it! We hosted a rendezvous on the Boston Common the Sunday that National Surveyors week started just for that purpose!
It takes effort from each and every Professional to take the time to educate the public on our responsibilities. I also host a TrigStar exam at the local high school, make a presentation to the Trig class once a year after the exam, and i serve on my town's Capital Planning Committee.
In spite of what I do, I still deal with the same question that you did. We will never, ever, be 100% rid of low ballers. All we can do is self police our profession and whatever else to inform the public.
my 0.04' worth
Dtp
I hear pretty much the same thing.
Just stay vigilant in educating the public on what is you really do.
I've come to the conclusion that these types of clients can go to the lowest bid. They always end up being a pain to do work for, so let the $350 guy deal with 'em.
You can't educate people who are looking at only the money. Rid yourself of those clients.
All very good ideas cousin. We have just created a class for that purpose in the form of a power point with which we are going to do that exact thing. I hadn't thought of the trig class yet, that is another good idea.
Here's a little free advice.
You're not going to get any 1/2 acre lot surveys for $2400. It doesn't matter if it actually takes that much time to do it right. Someone else will do it cheaper either by doing a sloppy job, or by losing money. Frankly, if I was figuring my expense, and I broke $1500, I would have stopped right then and called the client and said, "I'm sorry, I can't do this survey."
At what point is it fraud?
I feel your pain. Work on developing a strategy to illustrate to the client why your fee is the fee that it is and why this higher price actually represents BETTER value. This is about all you can do to sell your service. We all have an obligation to the public to stand in the way of practice that is unworthy. We ought not stand by merely wringing our hands. We do have the tools to practice ethically.
Evidence and Procedures for Boundary Location 4th edition page 466
Principle 3 The surveyor has the following obligations to the public: (1) to see that the client’s boundaries are properly monumented without subtracting from the rights of the adjoiner; (2) not to initiate boundary disputes; (3) not to aid in unauthorized surveying practice; (4) to see that those licensed to survey are properly qualified by character, ability, and training; (5) to see that those who prove unworthy of their privileges have those privileges deprived; (6) to agree not to attempt to practice in any professional field in which one is not proficient; and (7) to produce a quality product regardless of the price
Frustrated>Tommy
Tommy, you have to consider the location, downtown Saint Augustine, on the water?
> Today I received a request for a proposal for a boundary survey in downtown St. Augustine, Florida. The property, which was approximately 1/2 an acre, was platted back in 1936. It bordered on a state road to the north and a tidal river to the east. Additionally, the client said he was in a hurry to get the survey done and needed it completed in the next few days.
>
I would have asked WHY he needed a survey...If he is the seller he is only wanting the cheapest...If he is the real estate fellow he is wanting the cheapest, fastest, and a plat that 'won't rock the boat' so the deal closes...If he is the title fellow and/or bank he is checking a box...If he is the 'developer' he is wanting cheapest, fastest, and what ever it takes to get a permit.
If he is the BUYER...take the time to educate him...
Just my 0.04'
DDSM
If Florida is a 'Filing State'...watch for the plat to be filed...
Survey Plans
If the property is worthless, then why bother with a survey at all. If the property has value, then the interests of the requester of the survey can only be protected when that survey is properly conducted. Ask the $350 bidder to provide a survey plan that demonstrates how they propose to execute what their idea is of a proper survey. Provide your own survey plan and let the client compare apples to apples.
Correct me if I'm wrong...
but doesn't florida require a degree (4 year type?) in order to sit for the test?
Frustrated>Tommy
I understand where it is, and I understand that the survey may very well be worth $2400 compared to the value of the property. I also understand that there is no way someone was going to pay him $2400 to survey 1/2 acre.
educating the public seems like trying to count rocks in the great wall of china to me. i have choose to try to educate a couple of key clients as to why my way is better. some of them get it and we have cultivated a good relationship. others don't get and as others have said - i don't want them. now when times are slow you gotta do what you gotta do to survive. $350 is better than $0 dollars when the mortgage is due. but you can't sustain a healthy business at those rates.
work your business, don't let the other guys rates bother you too much. you are just one bad quote away from having your competition call you a lowballer.
HELLO…..it NOT the public that needs to be educated!!!!!!! All they know is a Professional gave an estimate of $350.00. What do they care about Positional Tolerance, PPM or Least Squares? They don’t what to hear about deed research or senior rights either. They want their property surveyed and some Bozo gave an estimate of $350 while someone else gave an estimate of $2,400.
The public knows a deal when they see one; the low baller left $2,000.00 on the table and will expose his neck accordingly. He’s the one that needs the education.
Survey Plans
> If the property is worthless, then why bother with a survey at all. If the property has value, then the interests of the requester of the survey can only be protected when that survey is properly conducted. Ask the $350 bidder to provide a survey plan that demonstrates how they propose to execute what their idea is of a proper survey. Provide your own survey plan and let the client compare apples to apples.
Good point, Dane
The question is WHO is the requester and what value they put on the property...
The Seller thinks 'why bother'...the Real estate fellow thinks 'why bother'...the title company and bank think 'check the box'...
It is the buyer who wants to be protected and wants a survey properly conducted...
DDSM
