FEMA Zone A

Look up FEMA's Guide # 265. It does a decent job of discussing the steps of obtaining and developing BFE's in a Zone A

Here is what you need to do.... Prepare a EC on it. In the blank where the BFE goes write NO BFE. In the comments section write this: "No BFE is avaliable from a local source (if that is the case), so I am requesting FEMA to provide one".

Send it to FEMA. It may take a couple of weeks or longer but they will respond, maybe wanting additional info, etc.

They will come up with a BFE that they are comfortable with. It may be just historical high water info, but will can then have something to provide your client. If the LAG is higher than the BFE they provide you may be able to get a LOMA to remove the structure from the SFHA.

It works for me.

Contact your city or county flood zone administrator and ask them for one. They have provided them for me in the past.

:good: Correct answer :good:

My experience (and my understanding after contacting FEMA) is similar to what John said. FEMA would like you to check with local authorities first, but if no other flood info is available, they will calculate a BFE based on their best available data.

> Contact your city or county flood zone administrator and ask them for one. They have provided them for me in the past.

:good:

I've also had success contacting the state agency over waters. In Kentucky that is the Division of Water, Flood Plain Management Division. They provided a letter stating that at the address listed the BFE was XXX.XX feet on NAVD88. Sent that in as a supplement to the other data - LOMA issued.

You might see if you have a similar department in your state.

That is my SOP, contact the State Floodplain Manager, if she doesn't have an alternate source of BFE, I write a cover letter to the LOMA application and request they determine it.

I have had a couple wonky elevations come back, I do some cross-sections, send them in and they revise based on the info. Where I do most of my work Zone A's are the most prevalent by far. I get excited when we have a BFE already determined so the client doesn't need to wait two months to know what the deal is.

:good: I agree with the many posters above who recommend working with local flood plain managers/administrators to get a community-determined BFE for Zone A. I'll just add the following: In my limited experience, this is one of those areas of professional surveying where it may be appropriate to become an advocate for your client, and not just a disinterested reporter of "the truth". Many of these community-determined BFEs are derived from little more than hocus-pocus. They may not be rigorously and scientifically computed by any means, yet a client gets stuck with a large flood insurance premium for the life of his mortgage.

> My experience (and my understanding after contacting FEMA) is similar to what John said. FEMA would like you to check with local authorities first, but if no other flood info is available, they will calculate a BFE based on their best available data.

It is my experience that FEMA may or may not calculate a BFE depending on the particular area of concern.

I often approach FEMA to see what they have on file as far as studies for a particular A Zone. In many instances, they have only very rough approximations based on rough terrain data. This is particular true in areas with few homes.
As such, and after exhausting other possible sources such as ACOE, State agencies, Local flood plain administers and public works departments, the true solution many times is a hydrologic and hydraulic analysis by trained professionals.

I do a lot of these, as I'm licensed as both a PE and LS and have been involved in both residential and large municipal flood determination efforts.

My primary objective when I am approached by a residential owner who needs a BFE determined, is first educating them on flood risks, associated NFIP ratings, and why or why not "best available data" based on rough approximations is sometimes not the best route to take.

My advice to anyone who is not an expert on FEMA and NFIP processes, or hydrologic and hydaulic analysis, is to align yourself with someone who is, in order to provide your clients with the most appropriate choices and solutions.

> That is my SOP, contact the State Floodplain Manager, if she doesn't have an alternate source of BFE, I write a cover letter to the LOMA application and request they determine it.
>
> I have had a couple wonky elevations come back, I do some cross-sections, send them in and they revise based on the info. Where I do most of my work Zone A's are the most prevalent by far. I get excited when we have a BFE already determined so the client doesn't need to wait two months to know what the deal is.

Paul,

I would suggest you also request the flood insurance study (FIS) from which the BFE is being determined. At least that way you can educate your client as to what the flood cert is really attesting to.

Give FEMA a small topo of the area and request that they provide the BFE. They usually do it or request more info to establish the BFE. Local administrators have not really been willing to give a BFE in my area.

Thanks for the tip! To be honest, I didn't know that FEMA would respond to Zone A inquiries at all, and have probably relied too heavily on municipal flood plain managers.

In two instances FEMA supplied BFE's where based on high water marks from past floods that I supplied them, near the site.
As to local flood managers, I have found that they may not have any knowledge of the subject.

I had one mayor of another town near that was the manager. He often ask me to fill out the forms that were sent to him. I did just as a courtesy.

It's sad that flood plain managers do not take their jobs more seriously. I've been lucky in my area that the flood plain managers will respond quickly to all requests, but I've also heard of situations where they are just incompetent boobs with titles.

The local flood plain manager should play an important role in the NFIP, and by joining the NFIP, the community agrees to follow their guidelines. One of the guidelines states that the flood plain manager is required to determine the BFE on all "Zone A" developments greater than 50 lots or 5 acres ... sadly, I don't see that happening, since some of the local flood plain managers seem to be clueless.

Still looking for a flood plain manger who knows anything

That is by far the huge problem anywhere near where I work. The title is handed to a county road supervisor, for example, who may know a lot about patching roads but doesn't know squat about how water runs uphill. Most of the cities under 35,000 population just tack this on to the list of things they think their city manager/superintendent should handle. Again, no training until after they get the title and even then it is something for which they are not well-suited. They sit through a day or two of schooling with their eyes glazed, or closed, grab the certificate to hang on the wall, then go home hoping no one ever actually expects them to do more than sign something simply because it has a line on it that says "flood plain manager to sign here".

There was a time when help was available through the State water office. No more. Apparently someone created a stink when they didn't get the answer they wanted, so now the State says its not their job to interfere with an insurance issue.

That leaves two options. Cajole FEMA into providing some sort of answer based on some data you can feed them or find someone who actually knows how to correctly perform a hydrodlogic/hydraulic analysis. In a few rare cases, that someone who knows "HOW" to do it is you. Whether you want to accept the liability associated with actually "DOING" it is another matter entirely.

A prime example

Needed a BFE on a significant river one county over. The structure was built right on the river bank, not some unnamed tributary 20 miles from the river. Their flood plain manager works in the County Health Department. They don't want any septic tanks or lagoons in a flood plain so, logically, the guy who signs off on those things must be the right guy to sign off on anything to do with a flood plain. I call him up and within a few minutes he gives me a number. A really round number, like 850. Immediately I develop a dislike for anything that round and start to question how he came up with the answer. I didn't like how he couldn't do a really good job of explaining things so set up an appointment to meet with him and look at his maps. Upon arrival there he whips out his map and points to the 850 almost directly on top of the structure to be addressed by my project. Then I point out to him that what he is seeing is merely an elevation contour on the base map and doesn't follow the flood plain boundary at all. "See, over there, how the colored area pulls away from the river bank and actually runs over thataway instead?" To top it all off, in really big letters across the top of the map was the message. "DO NOT USE FOR DETERMINATION OF INSURANCE-RELATED ISSUES" Needless to say, I really burst his self-appointed guru status bubble in a matter of very few minutes.

Where and how

Do I send an EC to FEMA in order for them to determine BFE in an "A" zone?

Where and how

LOMA Clearinghouse
847 South Pickett Street
Alexandria, Va. 22304-4605

Where and how

Thanks Dude...I owe you an adult beverage.:-P