In an earlier thread, there was some discussion of surveyors needing to prepare abstracts of titles in connection with ordinary survey work. In the good old days, the land owners would have a complete abstract of their titles that a surveyor could examine for the necessary information, including prior conveyances out of common source of title that would answer questions of seniority of title. Those days are pretty much gone as the actuarial model of land title insurance has taken hold and abstractors have largely disappeared.
In case anyone is interested, I've posted an example of a form that I use. This particular abstract is one I prepared in connection with a lawsuit over easement rights. The parties settled that dispute years ago, so I don't think there is any harm in sharing this. The missing parts are the sketches and an index page.
You'll note that I have not been concerned to note all the details of consideration or releases of various old vendor's liens as long as no foreclosure was made pursuant to them. Likewise, I haven't made a note of whether old deeds reflect that a grantor's wife was separately examined by the notary outside the presence of her husband when homestead property was conveyed. I'm not proposing to insure the title to the property. My purpose in assembling an abstract is to capture the data relevant to a survey.
What was at issue in the case was which properties bore the burden of an easement by implication to provide access to certain tracts. So the purpose of the abstract was to trace the history by which tracts came out of common ownership (and returned to common ownership, in some instances).
Kent McMillan, post: 373554, member: 3 wrote: ...This particular abstract is one I prepared in connection with a lawsuit over easement rights..
That is sure purdy...I have a similar set-up...except mine looks amazingly like a legal size yellow note pad. And yours seems to have all the nitty-gritty details that is usually required and pertinent to our business. A good form, for sure.
I feel compelled however to explain if you had done that north of the Red River, you would have broken the law. Seriously. AND it's hilarious.
"Abstracts of Title must be prepared by Licensed Abstract Offices. Those permits and licenses are obtained from the State Of Oklahoma."
Of course, chasing down title for the purposes of preparing a survey is completely legal. But most Registrar of Deed Offices require you to sign an affidavit stating your are NOT illegally preparing an Abstract of Title or working for an unlicensed individual for that purpose if you want to leave there with any copies of conveyances or records.
The part that really gets me is the affidavit must be notarized...and Pauline on the first floor will be more than happy to notarize it for you....and charge $5.
Pauline has a racket going..
paden cash, post: 373567, member: 20 wrote: That is sure purdy...I have a similar set-up...except mine looks amazingly like a legal size yellow note pad. And yours seems to have all the nitty-gritty details that is usually required and pertinent to our business. A good form, for sure.
I feel compelled however to explain if you had done that north of the Red River, you would have broken the law. Seriously. AND it's hilarious.
"Abstracts of Title must be prepared by Licensed Abstract Offices. Those permits and licenses are obtained from the State Of Oklahoma."
Of course, chasing down title for the purposes of preparing a survey is completely legal. But most Registrar of Deed Offices require you to sign an affidavit stating your are NOT illegally preparing an Abstract of Title or working for an unlicensed individual for that purpose if you want to leave there with any copies of conveyances or records.
The part that really gets me is the affidavit must be notarized...and Pauline on the first floor will be more than happy to notarize it for you....and charge $5.
Pauline has a racket going..
[sarcasm]Maybe[/sarcasm] [USER=1]@Wendell[/USER] [sarcasm]can come up with a little icon that appears beside the Title of the Thread indicating latitudinal relevance..... oh Nevermind - I just saw the "T" word....[/sarcasm] :whistle:
paden cash, post: 373567, member: 20 wrote: I feel compelled however to explain if you had done that north of the Red River, you would have broken the law. Seriously. AND it's hilarious.
"Abstracts of Title must be prepared by Licensed Abstract Offices. Those permits and licenses are obtained from the State Of Oklahoma."
Of course, chasing down title for the purposes of preparing a survey is completely legal. But most Registrar of Deed Offices require you to sign an affidavit stating your are NOT illegally preparing an Abstract of Title or working for an unlicensed individual for that purpose if you want to leave there with any copies of conveyances or records..
You have got to be shipping me. That is just another chapter of Life in Oklahoma that I could not have made up!
paden cash, post: 373567, member: 20 wrote: That is sure purdy...I have a similar set-up...except mine looks amazingly like a legal size yellow note pad. And yours seems to have all the nitty-gritty details that is usually required and pertinent to our business. A good form, for sure.
I feel compelled however to explain if you had done that north of the Red River, you would have broken the law. Seriously. AND it's hilarious.
"Abstracts of Title must be prepared by Licensed Abstract Offices. Those permits and licenses are obtained from the State Of Oklahoma."
Of course, chasing down title for the purposes of preparing a survey is completely legal. But most Registrar of Deed Offices require you to sign an affidavit stating your are NOT illegally preparing an Abstract of Title or working for an unlicensed individual for that purpose if you want to leave there with any copies of conveyances or records.
The part that really gets me is the affidavit must be notarized...and Pauline on the first floor will be more than happy to notarize it for you....and charge $5.
Pauline has a racket going..
Sounds like the State has a racket going too...
In Texas, land surveyors are expected to be able to do this sort of research. Here is what the rule on boundary construction says:
"RULE å¤663.16 Boundary Construction
When delineating a boundary line as an integral portion of a survey, the land surveyor shall:
(1) Respect junior/senior rights for boundary retracement;
(2) Follow the footsteps of the original land surveyor;
(3) Follow the documented records of the land title affecting the boundaries being surveyed;
(A) Rely on the appropriate deeds and/or other documents including those for adjoining parcels for the location of the boundaries of the subject parcel(s).
(B) A land surveyor assuming the responsibility of performing a land survey also assumes the responsibility for such research of adequate thoroughness to support the determination of the location of the boundaries of the land being surveyed. The land surveyor may rely on record data related to the determination of boundaries furnished for the registrants' use by a qualified provider, provided the registrant reasonably believes such data to be sufficient and notes, references, or credits the documentation by which it is furnished.
(C) All boundaries shall be connected to identifiable physical monuments related to corners of record dignity. In the absence of such monumentation the land surveyor's opinion of the boundary location shall be supported by other appropriate physical evidence, which shall be explained in a land surveyor's sketch or written report.
(4) Follow the intent of the boundary location as evidenced by the record;
(5) Respect the proper application of the rules of dignity (priority) of calls, and applicable statutory and case law of Texas."
Kent,
One suggestion I would offer about your abstract form is that you might change the width of the "remarks" column to be wider and figure out how to re-organize the balance of the information on the abstract form so that, basically, you can get the same information on a lesser number of pages. There is alot of white space on those pages.
Al
Big Al, post: 373579, member: 837 wrote: One suggestion I would offer about your abstract form is that you might change the width of the "remarks" column to be wider and figure out how to re-organize the balance of the information on the abstract form so that, basically, you can get the same information on a lesser number of pages. There is alot of white space on those pages.
The length of the abstract in that format is actually more of a feature than a bug (i.e. more pages generated for the same effort), so I haven't worried too much about trying to condense the thing. The old-time abstracts typically devoted at least a page to each instrument, but, now that you mention it, I may reconsider whether the Grantor, Grantee, and Instrument columns can be narrowed a bit.
Been using a yellow legal pad since 1973 for all that.
Now I print out a tax map and write this information on the actual drawing.
When the Abstract Office is really wanting to help they will send me "run sheets" that are the list of deeds that go back to the original parent tract description or original headright patent.
It is one job that you don't learn in a classroom, have to jump in over your head and learn to swim out.
😉
A Harris, post: 373583, member: 81 wrote: Been using a yellow legal pad since 1973 for all that.
Now I print out a tax map and write this information on the actual drawing.
The beauty of having a detailed summary abstract in printable format is that you can attach it to a Surveyor's Report and the product just looks a lot more professional. I view it as a legitimate part of the surveying product as long as it isn't misrepresented as a guarantee of title.
