Why reduce the fee? In all likelihood, the value of the product has increased (depending, of course, on real property values). Supposedly, you are a professional; not a craftsman.
Prof DA Wahlstrom JD MS
UH Professor Emeritus
> Would I be obliged to rebate any of the fee to the original client?
>
No!
Why would you feel the need to ask this question?
> That's a prevailing thought, to get the same surveyor who is familiar with the area. The problem is the client may get the same wrong answer over and over again.
>
> When you consider that the only thing being sold is a professional opinion, doesn't it make sense to get a second opinion?
>
Well you aren't wrong. But that is only one way to look at it, and it is from a perspective that the first surveyor is wrong, and you are loosing business because they could have hired you to straighten out the errors.
Let's look at it from a practical sense, though, and the first surveyor is a competent and professional surveyor who always does things right. (let's say Duane Frymire or someone almost as good).
Someone has a lot survey done, you go out and find all of the block corners, and maybe even a couple of corners that control where they belong. You break down the block and find all of the existing property pins in the block. You determine the existing and missing corners, which monuments you need to proportion between and eventually are able to place the corners of a lot.
Now, a neighbor needs a lot staked. You've already broke down the block! You should visit, check, etc., but being familiar with all of the existing monuments out their including your own, you should be much more efficient than if say, I came along and redid all your work. Maybe I would introduce more error, not fix yours.....
From a surveyor's standpoint, I agree, I want that chance to get the job too. But from a landowner's standpoint, I would rather not have surveyors repeating work already done. I got mouths to feed too, and I want the best I can get for my money.
> I did a survey for a loan closing a couple of months ago. The deal fell through but I am to be paid in full by the party I did the original work for.
> Is it ethical for me to contact the listing broker and advise her that I can make this survey available (for a fee) to the next buyer who comes along? Would I be obliged to rebate any of the fee to the original client?
> TIA
Sell the work as many times as you can, two times is good, three times is awesome, four would be amazing!
I see no ethical boundaries being crossed here.
One question to ask yourself is if the realtor involved would take a reduced fee to sell the same house again, if given the opportunity.
In terms of soliciting your services to the parties involved, remember that they may already have a copy of your survey. You are the obvious person to provide a "new" survey and it is reasonable to expect them to expect a somewhat reduced fee. After all, these are realtors and lenders you're dealing with, not Mother Teresa. That is always a tough call to make, so it depends on the parties involved and how much you may or may not value future work from them.
If they feel an obligation to refund something to the old parties, tell them to take it out of their fee - not yours.
> Sell the work as many times as you can, two times is good, three times is awesome, four would be amazing!
>
> I see no ethical boundaries being crossed here.
Five would be fantastic!
Six is sensational!
Seven heaven!
Eight is great!
Nine is like fine wine!
Ten, well ten times would be unethical......
How can this particular situation be unethical?
Some of these responses remind me of why alot of surveyors seem to be such miserable business people. I don't know about you, but I'm in business to make a living..just happens to be land surveying. Don't get me wrong, I love what I do, but I do it for money, otherwise I'd work for some governmental agency.
Other than to get the job, why on earth would you give anyone a discount? That's your money you're giving away.
> One question to ask yourself is if the realtor involved would take a reduced fee to sell the same house again, if given the opportunity.
>
> In terms of soliciting your services to the parties involved, remember that they may already have a copy of your survey. You are the obvious person to provide a "new" survey and it is reasonable to expect them to expect a somewhat reduced fee. After all, these are realtors and lenders you're dealing with, not Mother Teresa. That is always a tough call to make, so it depends on the parties involved and how much you may or may not value future work from them.
>
> If they feel an obligation to refund something to the old parties, tell them to take it out of their fee - not yours.
A quick note on the realtor's fees. I have had a realtor give me a great fee reduction if he also found the buyer, and offered me a share of his earnings if I found the buyer.
I bought a house with a realtor and he said that if I sold it through him he would give me a discount.
It is different for them to sell a house and go through closing and then put it up later on the market. But there is some room for a discount if you survey the same property a second time. In my opinion, you have done 90% of the work for the second survey.
But maybe I am wrong. Those are just my thoughts. I know that I would sure think long and hard about giving a repeat customer a break.
Ethics bubble question
Adam, it sound's like you have a good realtor for a client/friend. Not many of those around, but don't turn your back.
One thing not in the original post is dollar amount. What I read is JB was working for the buyer, who walked. Who knows the fee? If it's $300, then to reduce it to $250 for the next guy seems reasonable and you'll come out a hero. If it's a $120 mortgage report, then go to $115 and stay in the office (maintain the same date on the map). If it's $1,500, I'd be inclined to just wait till they call.
The big questions are: does the broker already have a copy (likely); and what would the next guy charge having been provided that copy. The key is to be 1% under them.
Ethics bubble question
Wayne,
He said the deal fell through but he is being paid in full. That's the kind of client you want I think. I was only saying that it is not the same for a realtor to discount a new sale of a house they have sold before, as it is for a surveyor to discount a survey that they already did before. I could make another apples-to-oranges comparison, and say should a carpenter get paid for building a house a second time when the first buy sells? (rhetorical-no need to answer. I agree a surveyor should charge the second time).
But forget all that. I am certainly no business man. I was only making a logical comparison. Please no one take my idle chats on a survey board as business advice.
It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders. As a consumer I know that when I think I am being treated right and with respect, I have a bigger tendency to come back to the same seller.
So, you guys are saying that it's a good idea for JB to call up the broker and tell them that he did the survey (for which he's been paid) and they are welcome to a copy of it at the original price?
Or do you mean that he's to call the broker and offer to re-do the survey (drive by visual inspection) at a "reduced" price?
I am not comfortable chasing work this way. I can't help but feel that it would leave a real bad taste in the brokers mouth...
As I said, I am not against using previous work for new clients. I just don't have a good feeling about chasing it this way...
my 0.04' worth 🙂
Ethics bubble question
> One thing not in the original post is dollar amount...If it's $300, then to reduce it to $250 for the next guy seems reasonable and you'll come out a hero.
$300? We can't load the truck and drive to a job site for that! Learn your worth guys. It seems more unethical to me to see a surveyor charge $300 for a job you know good and well that it should have been $1000 or more. Such a disservice to our profession.
I wouldn't spend much time worrying about it, chances are the broker and the closer have a copy and will give it to the next buyer.
Adam,
I always assume the previous surveyor was very good and professional. In fact I try to stress that agreeing with a previous survey should be the very first thing to try to do and is best in many circumstances even if it's not exactly what you would have done had you been there first. If ambiguity has been resolved in a reasonable way and the retracement relied on for a number of years, then a good surveyor should not use their ego to disturb the neighborhood.
I tell this to potential clients when they are considering retaining my own services in an area I have information in. Many times these clients may not like or trust the location they have noticed down the block, and don't know it was my work. Sometimes they have hired others at higher cost.
I'm only advocating full disclosure and informing clients of the nature of land boundary surveying work. Not trying to say one surveyor is better than another. But many clients don't know the nature of the work and that they may recieve differing opinions.
I'm not worried about trying to save people money on a job. I'm worried about them making informed decisions and getting the professional service they need or desire. Cost is certainly part of the decision they will need to make, but it shouldn't be the one factor to entice into something they don't fully understand.
> I wouldn't spend much time worrying about it, chances are the broker and the closer have a copy and will give it to the next buyer.
lol..sad but true
I think you are touching onto something that is not ethical.
There is no reason anyone should have a copy of your survey if it did not go to closing except you and the client.
Once the deal falls through, I would contend that your ethical obligation to the first client is over.
If he pays for it, certainly you should give him a copy of the survey, but after that, you are under no obligation of exclusivity.
