Ethics?

Innuendo Ethical?

I think you are missing the point here. He called me and tried to pass those pins off like he found them. I told him that I wasn't falling for it, these pins are brand new rebar, the tops are still shiny from being hammered in.
At this point he admitted that he had set the pins with no caps when he said the phrase "hey man, I'm just trying to feed my family"

It is very plain to see, he was unsure of the location of the corner, so he put a pin there and told the owners he found it. Plain and simple lying.

Just seems to me that if you're made aware of someone who is conducting their profession in a most unethical manner, i.e., setting bogus pins and calling them found, and you choose to remain silent, you've still made a decision and are now complicit. Reminds me a bit of a Martin Luther King quote I read recently to the effect, 'In the end we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends'.

Innuendo Ethical?

The next step downward will be to go by an existing subdivision, pull some capped pins, set them on the next survey, and call them found. Voila, all done!

Innuendo Ethical?

I'm not missing your point at all. If a surveyor is setting pins and calling them found, then that is grounds for an official complaint and action by a BOR.

However, I think you're missing my point. I am questioning your conclusions based on the thin evidence that could be interpreted in more than one way. And, mostly pointing out how many people are jumping to the same conclusions based on your post.

Ethics? (and quotations).

Not sure of the source, but a quote I heard recently:

"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."

It's a hard step to take and I am sure will be the cause of uneasy sleep/ for much deliberation on the OP's part (and any of us in a similar position).

Mete it out and act on your conscience.

Innuendo Ethical?

I will be stopping by the register of deeds later this week to see if he made the correction. This survey was a two lot subdivision plat, and under state law, should be recorded. I have made sure to give him plenty of time to make the correction and re- record the plat.

Even if he did make the correction, i believe this is still a terrible violation of our professional ethics. I have to wonder, how many times has he gotten away with this?!

I really feel like this is inacceptable behavior.

His family will want more food tomorrow.

And so will yours.

This is wrong on so many levels.

N

Innuendo Ethical?

Either Duane is being truthful about the admission or he isn't. I would bet on the former. This is damaging to the public and our Profession and all but demands action...
My 02

negligence and malice

Good word useage, "negligence and malice".

Keep us posted on this one.

Malice, I am going to try to use that word at the bowling alley this week.

negligence and malice

That's easy enough. Tell some story about Ralph Kramden from the old "Honeymooners" TV show referring to his wife, Alice, as being "M'Alice" as in "My Alice".

Innuendo Ethical?

Huh? What admission?

Again, it's not too hard to say the alleged actions demand a response. But if you want a BOR (or any other legal or regulatory entity) to take action then you need to have your evidence lined up and expect to be able to answer tough questions.

Before turning in to the Board, consider...

I would consider such action by a Board to be an abuse of power...

Before turning in to the Board, consider...

Hi Jim,

In some states it may be that the Board collects all manner of field notes, calculations, reference maps, etc.; where the Board then sits down, and cranks out the "correct" corner positions, but I seriously doubt it. My understanding is such review is only appropriate for the Courts, and that a Board has no more greater authority to tell you your corner is out 0.15' (or 15.00') than any other surveyor. But, more to the point, I would be surprised a Board would ever consider going there. Yes, a Board can say if certain information is not shown on the map. That type of review is straight forward and does not involve subjective opinion. It (the information ) is either shown, or it is not. Also, a Board might (probably will) do map or description checking for closure. My point is that a Board will want to see your map; just be sure there is not a single flaw on your map. One little flaw re your map can be called "negligence" in the practice of surveying. My point in posting is to warn others desirous of reporting a fellow surveyor to be extremely careful that your maps are perfect in every regard.

ubenhavin(?)

Before turning in to the Board, consider...

Mr I Ben,
I filed the FIRST complaint in the state of Arkansas, that was PROPERLY filed. (In my dad's name) against another surveyor. My dad filed the second, against the same surveyor. His work was BAD, and cheap. We documented it, and included it, and certified it.

His name was Gary Whitfield, PLS 882. Go to This Web site, search by PLS number, key in 0882, and have a look see. Mr. Whitfield nearly drove us out of business.

I am not ashamed of turning him in, several times. The Arkansas BOR finally called him in, and told him to either "Fix this mess" (Plats he had done, while on probation) or hand in his ticket.

Good surveying takes WORK, DISCIPLINE, and due diligence. IF this guy gets turned in, and it turns out he does GOOD work, but this was an exception, the BOR can show mercy. IF it turns out that this is typical, well, then he is a black eye to our profession. This should be looked at. Mr Whitfield referenced above, was GIVEN probation, for a year. When the BOR determined that he was not really going to change, they finally did what needed to be done, AFTER 3 certified complaints were filed against him.

I don't like turning in somebody any more than the next guy. BUT, if he is hurting things, I say it is better for US to clean our room, than to have the GIS folks, or the REALTORS police us.

🙂

N

Before turning in to the Board, consider...

Hi Nate,

In your example it appears the Board did what it should be in the business of doing. Other Boards...hmmm. For example, A land owner did not like where the surveyor placed his boundaries. The land owner files a complaint, and includes a copy of the map. A period of time passes, and the land owner gets a letter from the Board stating the surveyor was guilty of negligence in the practice of surveying. The land owner expected the Board was going to send someone out to set the corners where they should go, but no one ever shows up. The land owner is believing what the Board did was find that the surveyor put his boundaries in the wrong place (after all that is what the land owner was seeking to have happen) However, what the land owner did not have a clue about is the Board had simply found the "North" arrow missing on the map. Thus, when the Board found the surveyor guilty of negligence in the practice of surveying the Board was simply addressing the fact the North arrow was absent. Meanwhile, the surveyor had to spend lots of money on an attorney, and jeopardized his license solely due to the North arrow. Whether or not his survey was actually wrong...who knows? To my understanding that was never considered. (This story was told to the class during a continuing education seminar. According to the instructor, the surveyor did not have deep pockets, and by the time the case was to be heard by the full Board he had no money left for an attorney. When he appeared before the Board alone, the Board told him they would hear his case at another meeting, and that he would have to have his lawyer with him. The broke surveyor told the Board they would have to do what they wanted to do with him because he was broke and would not be bringing an attorney. I can't remember exactly what the Board's punishment was. The ridiculous irony is that no one at any time had ever complained about the missing North arrow.)

ubenhavin(?)