A couple if weeks ago, I received a call from a landowner who disagrees with a pin that was set on his property. I talk with him for several minutes, and realize that I have not done any work near his tract. Ever. So... I decide I will help this guy figure out who he needs to call. I instruct him to go look at the newly set pin and relay the name and liscense number to me. He informs me that there is no cap on it. So, I tell him it must be an old pin, could be a couple of surveyors from he area... He says" you don't understand... This pin is new!"
Ok mister.. I've got a project about a mile down the road from there tomorrow, I will stop by and take a look .
I make a couple of measurements and determine that the pin is about 15 feet from where it should be, but it was beside an 8" wooden fence post. Ok, starting to look like a surveyor is trying to pin the lot based on use/occupation, etc...
I also find two other obviously new pins without caps on the neighbors property. Starting to look like somebody is trying to set pins and pass them off as found pins.
So, I tell the guy " ok mister ... Here's what weare going to do. I will set the pins where they are supposed to be, and if your neighbor has a problem with it, he will have his surveyor try to
Fix it.
FYI, the neighbors had just told mister ... To stuff it, their surveyor was right.
So, I set one pin, and head on down the road.
Phone starts blowing up. It is surveyor "M" and he is MiFFFED" with a capital m.
He wants to know why i am not hding a found pin!
I inform him that it is obvious that someone has recently set it, along with a couple of other pins.
Long pause on the phone.....
He says..."hey man... I'm just tryin to feed my family...
I understand that everybody makes mistakes, but negligence and malice are two totally different things.
I have struggled with the descision whether to turn him in to the board or not.
This is exactly the kind of stuff that degrades our profession.
Ask the other Surveyor to provide a copy of his final plat/survey. Then consider.
Some complaints are close calls, and you wonder if you are doing the right thing.
This isn't one of those. This one is so far over the line it boggles one's mind.
Turn him in. Now. Tonight. If you don't, make no mistake, he will do it again. And again.
If you don't want to turn in the other surveyor, perhaps the aggrieved land-owner would. It's something you could certainly suggest to them.
Just so everybody knows... This guy's sign, business cards, billboards, trucks, hats, and t-shirts say " honesty and integrity for over 18 years"!
If what you've described isn't a professional offense, what is?
As mentioned, if at all possible get a copy of his survey plat. Without it you might not have as solid a complaint and only word-against-word. If it shows something that doesn't look like what you saw, then you are probably obligated by your BOR rules to send in the information.
>... but negligence and malice are two totally different things.
>
I like how you put that. I might would throw in "malfeasance" and/or incompetence.
But did he make and honest mistake? Or is it a peed off neighbor pitching a fit?
Twice I was told to do something that seemed not right me. One was to pincushion something a couple inches away. The other (different firm) was something I'm still struggling with personally. I was told to drive the pin found out of sight. It was about 25' where I was told it was supposed to be. I felt we should have taken shots and brought the data back to the office for review.
A couple months later that same boss accused me of stealing his truck and fired me and called the law on me. Don't know why he called the law on me. As he was firing me and sending me out the door his wife calls saying his truck is parked behind the barn at their house. I said nothing and walked out the door only to answer to the police which I had nothing to answer for. I was already leaving that psycho. It wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit to hear he's dead or that state's BOR pulled his license.
I've been fired or let go before but gees... stealing his truck? I was checking all the rods that morning and already had all our trucks stocked up. "HEY! ERIC! WHERE'S MY F..... NG TRUCK?!" Many of you know me and probably could only imagine how that hit home. I had no clue. The secretary looked at me just as wide eyed as me. I just shook my head - said nothing and left. Apparently he'd already called the police on me. After getting searched and "do you have any weapons" business they let me go.
A friend said I should sue him for slander and liable and all that. Not my style. I just drove away. I won't mention any names or even the state but I promise, if I'm asked they'll get the whole story. That includes the BOR of that state and yes, they know who I am. All they need to do is call. Another feller can back me up on that psycho crap. I don't believe he posts here but we do know each other.
Just before posting this it occurs to me there are several guys I know who know exactly who I'm talking about.
Yeah, I guess my feelings are still hurt about that. That's ok. Karma will have another thing to do with that.
Making an honest mistake and correcting said mistake when pointed in the right direction, is one thing. Raising cane because you disagree with the BS he is spreading and then trying to justify his actions by saying, 'I'm just trying to feed my family", is the dark side of humanity we are supposed to be protecting against.
I agree with Bill. If he has a plat that shows his slight of hand, turn it in to the board and get this "honest surveyor with integrity" a much needed lesson on his professional duties as a land surveyor. After all, if we turn a blind eye, aren't we just as guilty?
My $0.02
For starters
you could tell HIM you are going to the BOR. Get him sweating. Tell him he should change all of his signs, hats, shirts etc. Rake him over the coals personally. You should have already done that before telling us he's a cheater and a liar.
:good:
agreed. You need something to show that the guy was out of line. Telling the board that he set pins without a cap and called them found, don't fly. What do you think he will say when the board asks him? Who will look petty and vengeful if you are just making a claim with no data. (And I doubt you will get a plat from him showing that he did wrong; but that is the direction to go. Maybe he provided one to the property owner.)
Billboard? Really? Is it a survey-only shop?
I once worked for a larger firm. An employee had recently changed which office he worked in to cut the commute. During the beginning of the recession he and I were to start reporting to a third, different office in an attempt to pool the regional workload and keep the remaining staff busy.
Long story short, the new office we were supposed to report to was an absolute joke, and was always known to be. We both quit one day a couple of weeks in to the transfer after getting reemed for something way beyond our control. I quit for good to move back to the middle-of-nowhere, he said if he couldn't go back to his original office he quit, too.
He was driving the truck and equipment to another office of the same company and the survey director of the madhouse called and reported it stolen.
Not as bad as what you described, but still completely ridiculous. I had forgotten about it until I read your account.
It boggles my mind that you would even consider not turning this guy in!
Before turning in to the Board, consider...
I am reminded of a similar case where one surveyor turned in another. At the very beginning of the State's investigation, the Board required the map of the complaining surveyor. When the Board got its hands on his map, they put it under the microscope to see if every "i" was dotted, and every "t" crossed. (As famously stated by a Board member at a formal Board session, "This Board could take any map, and find at least one violation of law".) So, not so surprisingly, the Board put the complaining surveyor's map under the microscope, and 'viola' , they found a violation of law (gasp... sniff, sniff...cough, cough). Next up, the complaining surveyor gets a registered letter from the Board informing him, "The probable Cause Committee has determined negligence in the practice of surveying (or some such language)."
I believe (possibly) some surveyors have the mistaken notion the Board will look into judgements made by an "errant" surveyor. Maybe that is how it happens where you are from. However, in some states it just doesn't happen that way. Just be forewarned. Be aware any maps you may turn over to the Board could receive a level of scrutiny you never considered.
In the case cited above, the complaining surveyor was said to have told another surveyor, "That's the last time I'll ever turn in someone." Anyway, if you do decide to report, good luck. You may need it!
ubenhavin(?)
Followup - Before turning in to the Board, consider...
States I am familiar with only go so far as looking at the map. That is where it begins and ends.
I learned long ago to approach directly and seek one on one solutions when possible. This sounds way beyond that.
Fraudulent surveys diminish property values, harm the public and undermine our profession. Write out the facts and turn it in.
My 02...
Innuendo Ethical?
Ah, the power of innuendo.
There may well be something going on. But all this post really tells us is that one surveyor is disagreeing with another based only on "a couple measurements". Wouldn't it be prudent to perform a full investigation (survey) before setting pins in disagreement with another surveyor?
So there are no caps; maybe the crew (or surveyor) ran out that day. Maybe they were planning on coming back later to put caps on them. The surveyor could have been referring to his set pins as your found ones (that would be a correct representation).
Since you involved yourself into this situation, you placed yourself into the ethical duty of "protecting the public.."
It is in your lap now.
Innuendo Ethical?
:good:
"innuendo and out the other".
Get your ducks in a row, and make sure everything it appears to be is what it actually is. The board can't reprimand someone because a competing surveyor "says" what it looks like to them. Plats, notes, and what exactly he did needs to be discovered even before reporting the guy.