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Emotional North. A new term, for an old condition.

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nate-the-surveyor
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My son got turned around the other day. We were driving, and he was looking at my Javad LS, setting it up to stake another point, and I was driving. He got turned around. "Lost his bearings". AHA! Emotional North!

This led to a conversation with an adjoiner to my client. He was telling me that 5 owners ago, one of them said they "Did not intend to sell any property EAST of the road". (They had, done so, via their deed). And, therefore my client's deed was "Invalid". I told him we don't use "Emotional North". He suddenly stopped. Looked at me, and said "What's that?" I said, it's simply HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT IT. We use deeds, and that's why they are put in writing. So we don't re-write them with our emotions, after the fact. I proceeded to say "Have you ever gotten turned around, and been confused as to which way is north, and made further mistakes, due to loss of direction?" He said "Yes, he had".

Well, I think most humans have used "Emotional North", at one time or another. I wonder. Maybe someday I will add a note to a plat, "Client/Adjoiner appears to have used "Emotional North", to come to their conclusion.?ÿ

I know I did not "Discover" Emotional north, but I have found new words, to describe conflicts on surveys. Try "Emotional North" some day.

It's may help you communicate. 🙂

Nate


 
Posted : February 24, 2022 9:05 am
holy-cow
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I have a deep-seated need for Emotional North.?ÿ Driving in the dark, getting off at some exit you have never seen before, then spinning most of a 360 to enter the motel driveway and pull up to the lobby to check in.?ÿ Finally, pack your gear through a maze and an elevator ride to get to your room at the end of a hall.?ÿ As I view the room, thataway is north and thisaway is south.?ÿ I am content now that I am oriented.?ÿ Discombobulated to the max when the sun rises in the northwest the following morning.


 
Posted : February 24, 2022 9:59 am
Gordon Svedberg
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Many years ago now the county deed vault was moved from the southeast corner of the multi story government building, to the northwest corner, down the same long hallway, so?ÿ the deed room was on the "same" corner depending on how you approached it.?ÿ ?ÿHowever the view out the window was completely different.?ÿ It took me a long time to discombobulate emotional north.


 
Posted : February 24, 2022 10:38 am
dave-karoly
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People mentally establish the boundaries of their homestead subjectively.

Land Surveyors use objective means to mark the boundaries.

When the objective conflicts with the subjective we have a problem together with the fact that the Land Surveyor is an intruder upon the scene.

A unilateral subjective boundary cannot be sustained but a mutual subjective boundary will be upheld by most courts (certain terms and conditions apply).


 
Posted : February 24, 2022 10:39 am
paden-cash
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I was contacted a few years ago by a gentleman that wanted me to prepare and record a correction deed for a piece of property he had sold years earlier.

He had sold a tract and still held ownership on three sides of this severed property.?ÿ After the sale he had built a large commercial building and inadvertently encroached onto this tract by about?ÿ nine feet.?ÿ Another surveyor had recently found this error.?ÿ I asked him to reiterate his request...and I heard him correctly.?ÿ He wanted to file a correction deed on a piece of property he no longer owned.

My first mistake was assuming he was rational.?ÿ It quickly became apparent he was fixed on an "emotional north" that he had every right to change someone else's deed because of the way he felt about it.?ÿ I finally convinced him that I wasn't very interested in helping him and there was sooo much wrong with what he wanted to accomplish.

I later did some investigating and discovered he had been forced to purchase back the strip of land he had encroached upon.?ÿ So much for "emotional north" as a defense in court.?ÿ 😉

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ

?ÿ


 
Posted : February 24, 2022 11:01 am

RADAR
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@paden-cash?ÿ

My friend was a Notary; he had a friend that wanted him to notarize the signature of his dead Grandmother.

Turns out, they were NOT that good of friends...


 
Posted : February 24, 2022 11:13 am
holy-cow
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Getting turned around on a sunless day is so easy.?ÿ Remember traveling with the client via a six-wheeled side-by-side through dense overgrowth and duck ponds to a spot along the river bank from which we were to layout a tract.?ÿ My helper pointed and said something about "So, we go north from here to the corner of the ............. you showed us?"?ÿ The client said, "Yes, except for the north part.?ÿ That is southeast."?ÿ Turned out the client knew what he was talking about.?ÿ I kept my trap shut because I would have said northwest.

Sometimes silence is golden.


 
Posted : February 24, 2022 12:23 pm
jitterboogie
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Posted by: @holy-cow
.....?ÿ

Sometimes silence is golden.

Chris sang the same thing....

?ÿ

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9jBhSWINsqo

?ÿ

?ÿ


 
Posted : February 24, 2022 1:38 pm
dmyhill
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Posted by: @paden-cash

My first mistake was assuming he was rational.?ÿ

I try to keep that bias out of my head.


 
Posted : February 24, 2022 1:52 pm
Larry Best
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I just went back and forth 4 times with an archichoke over why my survey and an adjacent survey don't line up exactly leaving a little triangle in between. If only I had known to say it was a slight difference in emotional norths.


 
Posted : February 24, 2022 2:45 pm

party-chef
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Another powerful phenomenon is the belief that this thing we are building is going to conform to a persons earlier experience building something similar.

?ÿ


 
Posted : February 25, 2022 5:11 pm
dave-karoly
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ƒ??I bought 5 acres.ƒ?

no you didnƒ??t, you bought a description that encloses about 5 acres.

ƒ?Thatƒ??s not what the paper I got from the Assessor says.ƒ?

Yeah well you have the junior Deed, the Assessor is only guessing.


 
Posted : February 25, 2022 5:54 pm
nate-the-surveyor
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"Ok, now you've shown me your boundary according to your emotions. Now, let me show you the un-emotional boundary".

N


 
Posted : February 25, 2022 8:24 pm
bill93
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I'd prefer the term "subjective north" or "intuitive north", because I don't usually get very emotional over it as long as I can figure out the truth, and the feeling remains even after figuring it out intellectually.


 
Posted : February 25, 2022 8:33 pm
holy-cow
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If you really want to get confused, go to Allen County, Kansas.?ÿ The east to west roads are named for States and are somewhat alphabetical as one goes from south to north.?ÿ This is the only place I know where North Dakota (Road) is south of South Dakota (Road).

BTW, the north to south roads are numbered?ÿ and increase as one goes further to the east.?ÿ They are Streets.?ÿ Each half mile is a unit of 100 such that a full mile goes up by 200, e.g., 600 Street is one mile west of 800 Street.?ÿ The jump in the Standard Parallel is close to a half mile, so it is confusing when tracking addresses on opposite sides of the Parallel.


 
Posted : February 25, 2022 8:49 pm

bill93
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@holy-cow?ÿ

That isn't half as confusing as states where there aren't enough cardinal roads to have a grid system.?ÿ Or the naming in some of the eastern states where the road may be named by either of two towns it connects, so that if you are looking for one of them you may not know to look for the other instead. Or maybe one of the two names isn't a town.


 
Posted : February 25, 2022 9:10 pm
holy-cow
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A nearby county had to figure out what to do with a short road that ran very close to SW to NE.?ÿ It connected a numbered highway with York Road.?ÿ Had the highway route been a county road it would have been 24000 Road.?ÿ So 24225 Road might have been suggested.?ÿ Or Xylophone Road to indicate being a bit short of Yale Road.?ÿ For many years there had been a Massey-Ferguson farm implement dealer, so they named it Massey Road which did not fit in with either of the other naming systems.


 
Posted : February 25, 2022 10:18 pm
holy-cow
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Missouri has the most complicated system for naming paved roads.?ÿ There is a route that I have taken many times that brings me to this conclusion.?ÿ When I turn off a State highway to go east, the road is labeled as M.?ÿ In places it is also labeled Base Line Road.?ÿ Then it turns into both O and M.?ÿ Then it becomes N until it changes to 37 and then NN.?ÿ It finally hits 97 where it continues east a bit before finally turning to the south.?ÿ Until a dipsy-do for the 97 intersection, it is running straight east the whole time.?ÿ An option is to hop off of 97 shortly after getting on so as to return to the straight east continuation of NN.?ÿ But, in a short time one is on NN and 2000, which turns into Lawrence 2000 for a bit before becoming Lawrence 1085 for some reason for a vey short stretch.?ÿ It then becomes 202 for roughly one mile before the east bound trip ends with a short turn to the south on the dead end road 1085, which is no way connected to the first Lawrence 1085.


 
Posted : February 25, 2022 10:41 pm