I got to talk to a surveyor from the west side of the state this last week who is volunteering with his local historical societies and archeological groups to find old stuff – pioneer routes, settlements, homesteads and the like.
I like and respect this individual a lot – I wish I could have surveyed with him at some time because he is a badger when it comes to uncovering old original evidence. He’s an old school straight shooter and not one to venture into the realm of whimsy and moon beams. So it surprised me when he told me of the success he has had witching for unmarked graves in pioneer cemeteries.
A group he volunteers with at first rented a ground penetrating radar with which they had limited results. Then an old-timer told him about witching for stiffs. The surveyor has had great success that afterwards has been corroborated with other data and had a duffle bag full of old moldy brown skulls to prove it.
The last 14 words of the previous sentence are a falsehood fabricated by me, but he was quite confident in the procedures he uses. In one instance he found that a crude cemetery map was drawn 90 degrees off… folks had been looking for graves buried in east-west rows and they turned out to be north-south rows.
Has anyone had experience with this? I searched the beerleg archives and there were conversations about dousing water lines and wells and a passing mention of graves but nothing specific. I tried witching a water line back in the 1970s when a city water master came out to a construction job we were working on and located, exactly, an unmarked waterline with his bent coat hangers. All of us on the crew gave it a try with varying results from crossed wires to nada(me). There’s a big cemetery behind our house and I gave it a go but returned home with an empty duffle bag, so to speak.
>This fork of the thread is reserved for Kent
Have at it -
/This fork is reserved for experiences of other posters
comments?
> Has anyone had experience with this?
So, just out of curiosity, did you actually sharpen up your powers of surveying observation to look for:
a) irregularities in the ground surface such as depressions from collapsed coffins or low mounds from fill and
b) changes in the texture of the soil as disclosed by a tile probe?
or did that seem like too much work?
Wrong Fork, Kent
But keep trying.
As tor you, Mike:
Dowsing for detritus, hmm.
There may be a market.
Don
> So, just out of curiosity, did you actually sharpen up your powers of surveying observation to look for:
>
> a) irregularities in the ground surface such as depressions from collapsed coffins or low mounds from fill and
>
> b) changes in the texture of the soil as disclosed by a tile probe?
>
> or did that seem like too much work?
No Kent. I just walked along the mowed lawns between the thousands of tombstones in the cemetery.
Dowsing for detritus
Yeah Don, you'd think if this was sure fire for some "witchers", that there'd never be an undiscovered un-marked grave in these sad murders where the law thinks a person is buried in a remote park. Don't bother with cadaver dogs, grab some welding rod and a shovel and solve this crime.
> I just walked along the mowed lawns between the thousands of tombstones in the cemetery.
Okay, and you're wondering whether you can use dowsing rods to determine whether there are human remains buried where the headstones indicate where are? Isn't that a little ... extreme?
In that cemetery, you probably could test your skill with a tile probe (as long as no one was watching).
I kind of reckoned that trying it where there were well marked graves with known corpses of varying degrees of freshness would be the logical way to see if witching proved out for me. But you have a point. I can’t confirm what the expected error ellipses of the tombstones are without jamming a tile probe down to find and mark the four corners of each burial and compare those with the locations of the stone.
Then the work of sledge hammering the tombstones over a couple tenths to match the location of deceased begins. THAT is work I’ll need to do when no one is watching.
> I kind of reckoned that trying it where there were well marked graves with known corpses of varying degrees of freshness would be the logical way to see if witching proved out for me.
Yes, you could take your dowsing rods to the nearest US Mailbox to see whether you can detect postage stamps, too. Much more direct to (a) determine that there are in fact readily discernable changes in soil texture over even old graves and, if so, then (b) just wander around as you would with dowsing rods until you come upon a headstone and use the probe to confirm there is a grave associated with it.
Then, you can take the training wheels off and begin The Ultimate ALTA Land Title Survey®. (Offer void where prohibited by law. Allow 46 weeks for delivery.)
> Has anyone had experience with this?
Not so much...but I would probably suggest that a specialist in such things be hired as a consultant:
I'm sure it would involve incense and fresh chicken blood....:bored:
> and use the probe to confirm there is a grave associated with it.
If I were inclined to indulge in such trifles, I'd use a backhoe rather than a probe. In the rocky soil here there's no substitute for a John Deere 310 to sift through the subterranean chaff to lay claim to your corpse.
As for stamps, I think you should reserve your dousing efforts to the dead letter office of the US post office.
Tell him about the James Randi Million Dollar Challenge.
> If I were inclined to indulge in such trifles, I'd use a backhoe rather than a probe.
Well, if you don't own a probe, I think you'll find it's much more satisfactory, should you ever dowse up a means to acquire one. :>
> Tell him about the James Randi Million Dollar Challenge.
I guess I should. He didn't say if he'd had luck previously with water lines, wells, spiritual vortexes and the like, but he was all eaten up with this grave jazz.
> >should you ever dowse up a means to acquire one. :>
Yes, that would be divine.
Well, you might consider *borrowing* a metal detector to "explore" the areas around bus stops first. I'll bet that in less than a few days work you could put enough change together to buy a good tile probe and that pair of X-ray glasses you've always wanted.
You'll make all the lost time back, of course, when your invoice for The Ultimate ALTA Land Title Survey® gets paid (after you sign all the necessary certificates as to unmarked burial ground, toxic waste dumps and such, of course).
Keep in mind that the internet can also be a good way to locate graves. Here's one I just located today:
Mike,
I think the preferred method of correcting the head stone monument would be to either set one of your own next to the existing one, (two, three, twenty, or however many) OR if it is SLIGHTLY in the way you could drill a hole in the top where the true centroid is located.
Geezer
Just when you think you've heard it all... along comes dowsing for dead people. SMH!
Thanks for the offer, but I won’t be able to help you with your school bus stop work due to other obligations. And, if your restraining order is ever lifted, you really should find another pastime anyway. If you just can’t resist, perhaps refraining from telling the kiddies “here, hold my probe” and wearing your x-ray glasses at the bus stop will keep you out of this bind again. And for Pete’s sake don't tell the children about the nice wiener dog you’ve got “back at the house”.
