I am curious which states still allow an apprentice route to initial licensure, esp. western states. Tomorrow, the apprentice route will be repealed in Colorado so I'd like to know how Colorado compares with its neighbors.
Massachusetts allows a person with 20 years of experience to apply for licensure. There's nothing formal as to monitoring an apprenticeship.
Washington simply requires eight years of experience, four of which may be achieved through education. I doubt that will change any time soon.
I'm not sure I would equate "no formal education needed for licensure" to an apprenticeship program. The latter (usually) applies universal standards and testing throughout the program, with incremental, formal advancement under close supervision. I don't think any state has anything close to those formal procedures for surveyor advancement. The CST is about the closest thing.
Oregon allows for 12 yrs experience with no formal education.?ÿ?ÿ
Texas has been mulling over allowing the requirements to return to their original guidelines and include years of on the job education to count toward being eligible to take the test for a license if they have had the 30+ hours of college surveying specific classes or perhaps 2yrs of college.
Anyway, it is back on the table for discussion.
California allows it.?ÿ It's the way I got here.
Gene, if you mean "experience only" route, then yes, many other states have more than one route to obtain a land surveyor license.?ÿ As Jim stated above, California doesn't require a degree, but there is a route where land surveying education can be considered as partially equivalent to meeting the work experience necessary to qualify.
I'm aware of what is happening in Colorado and some other states are this way.?ÿ Personally I don't agree with it simply because I don't believe there are sufficient opportunities for people to obtain a land surveying degree and due to the fact that experience is proven to be much more valuable in terms of determining whether a person can practice appropriately.?ÿ No one is disciplined at a licensing board for lack of education.
See page 6 for Kansas requirements.
New Zealand - No
A four year degree is just one of the requirements
There is no experience only option for New Mexico or Alaska.
I am curious which states still allow an apprentice route to initial licensure, esp. western states. Tomorrow, the apprentice route will be repealed in Colorado so I'd like to know how Colorado compares with its neighbors.
Do you a have a link to the Colorado changes?
@aliquot The change was made a little over 10 years ago and became effective today. The apprentice route required 10 years of experience and the 10 year grace period was intended to grandfather any survey techs employed at the time to not be locked out.
Here is the entire section of the Colorado Revised Statutes on "Qualifications for professional land surveyor." See subsection (4)(e) for the apprentice route being repealed today (boldface and underlining is my emphasis).
I'll start another thread that will make it apparent why I asked the question.
12-120-313. Qualifications for professional land surveyor - repeal. (1) (a) An applicant may qualify for licensing as a professional land surveyor by endorsement and examination if the applicant passes the required examination or examinations pertaining to Colorado law.
(b) In order to be admitted to the examination pursuant to subsection (1)(a) of this section, the applicant shall be licensed in good standing in another jurisdiction requiring qualifications substantially equivalent to those currently required of applicants under this part 3 or, at the time of initial licensure in the other jurisdiction, have met the requirements for licensure then in existence under Colorado law.
(c) Upon passing the examination, the applicant shall be licensed as a professional land surveyor if the applicant is otherwise qualified pursuant to section 12-120-312.
(2) (a) An applicant may qualify for licensing as a professional land surveyor by education, experience, and examination if the applicant passes the principle and practice of surveying examination and the examination pertaining to Colorado law.
(b) To be admitted to an examination pursuant to subsection (2)(a) of this section, the applicant shall meet the requirements stated in at least one of the following:
(I) (A) Have graduated from a board-approved surveying curriculum of four or more years; and
(B) Have two years of progressive land surveying experience under the supervision of a professional land surveyor or an exempted federal employee defined in section 12-120-303 (1)(b); and
(C) Have been enrolled as a land surveyor-intern in this state; or
(II) (A) Have graduated from a nonboard-approved surveying curriculum of four or more years; and
(B) Have four years of progressive land surveying experience of which at least two must be under the supervision of a professional land surveyor or an exempted federal employee as defined in section 12-120-303 (1)(b); and
(C) Have been enrolled as a land surveyor-intern in this state; or
(III) (A) Have graduated from a board-approved two-year surveying curriculum or from a four-year engineering curriculum that included surveying course work as specified by the board by rule; and
(B) Have six years of progressive land surveying experience of which four years shall have been under the supervision of a professional land surveyor or an exempt federal employee as defined under section 12-120-303 (1)(b); and
(C) Have been enrolled as a land surveyor-intern in this state; or
(IV) (A) Have obtained a bachelor's degree in a nonsurveying curriculum;
(B) Have completed surveying and other related course work, as specified by the board by rule;
(C) Have six years of progressive land surveying experience, of which four years shall have been under the supervision of a professional land surveyor or an exempted federal employee as defined in section 12-120-303 (1)(b); and
(D) Have been enrolled as a land surveyor-intern in this state.
(c) Upon passing the examinations and the submission of evidence of experience satisfactory to the board, the applicant shall be licensed as a professional land surveyor if the applicant is otherwise qualified pursuant to section 12-120-312.
(3) The board may allow an applicant to substitute for one year of experience the satisfactory completion of one academic year in a curriculum approved by the board. The substitution of education for experience shall not exceed three years.
(4) (a) An applicant may qualify for licensure as a professional land surveyor by experience and examination if the applicant passes the principles and practice of land surveying examination and the examination pertaining to Colorado law.
(b) In order to be admitted to an examination pursuant to subsection (4)(a) of this section, the applicant shall:
(I) Have graduated from high school or its equivalent;
(II) Have ten years of progressive land surveying experience of which at least six years must have been under the supervision of a professional land surveyor or an exempted federal employee as defined in section 12-120-303 (1)(b); and
(III) Have been enrolled as a land surveyor-intern in this state.
(c) Upon passage of the examination pursuant to subsection (4)(a) of this section, the applicant shall be licensed as a professional land surveyor if the applicant is otherwise qualified pursuant to section 12-120-312.
(d) The board may allow an applicant to substitute for one year of experience the satisfactory completion of one academic year in a curriculum approved by the board. The substitution of education for experience shall not exceed three years.
(e) This subsection (4) is repealed, effective July 1, 2020.
(5) (a) A professional land surveyor who has been duly licensed to practice professional land surveying in this state and who is over sixty-five years of age, upon application, may be classified as a retired professional land surveyor. Individuals who are so classified shall lose their licensure, shall not practice professional land surveying, and shall pay a fee to retain retired professional land surveyor status.
(b) (I) A retired professional land surveyor shall be reinstated to the status of a professional land surveyor upon payment of the renewal fee. No other fee shall be assessed against the retired professional land surveyor as a penalty.
(II) For any professional land surveyor who has been retired for two or more years, the board may require reexamination unless the board is satisfied of the retired professional land surveyor's continued competence.
Thank you everyone for the replies.
Georgia allows it with "Experience acceptable to the Board".?ÿ Good luck with that.
Andy
California requires an LSIT and 6 years experience, 4 of that can be a 4 year degree. As far as I know degrees aren??t required for Civil Engineers either (unless that has changed).
as a practical matter I think some education is necessary to pass the LS or PE.
Civil PEs don??t have to take the LSIT but an LS has to pass the EIT before the PE. I assume that was part of the deal making in the early 1980s when authorization to practice LS was removed from Civil PEs.
Kentucky no longer has an experience only route.?ÿ
Licensed PEs only need two years of general surveying experience to sit for the PLS exams in California. It is much easier to get your PE first as opposed to the other way around to be a dual licensee.
As Dave said, 6 years of experience minimum (with no degree) but it usually takes longer than that because it requires one year year of responsible time in the field and another in the office, with a minimum of four licensed references attesting to your worthiness to sit for the exam.
Because I had a degree, This is why I left Colorado to try to find the way and the support to aim for a license:
IV) (A) Have obtained a bachelor's degree in a nonsurveying curriculum;
(B) Have completed surveying and other related course work, as specified by the board by rule;
(C) Have six years of progressive land surveying experience, of which four years shall have been under the supervision of a professional land surveyor or an exempted federal employee as defined in section 12-120-303 (1)(b); and
(D) Have been enrolled as a land surveyor-intern in this state.
(c) Upon passing the examinations and the submission of evidence of experience satisfactory to the board, the applicant shall be licensed as a professional land surveyor if the applicant is otherwise qualified pursuant to section 12-120-312.
(3) The board may allow an applicant to substitute for one year of experience the satisfactory completion of one academic year in a curriculum approved by the board. The substitution of education for experience shall not exceed three years.
(4) (a) An applicant may qualify for licensure as a professional land surveyor by experience and examination if the applicant passes the principles and practice of land surveying examination and the examination pertaining to Colorado law.
(b) In order to be admitted to an examination pursuant to subsection (4)(a) of this section, the applicant shall:
(I) Have graduated from high school or its equivalent;
(II) Have ten years of progressive land surveying experience of which at least six years must have been under the supervision of a professional land surveyor or an exempted federal employee as defined in section 12-120-303 (1)(b); and
(III) Have been enrolled as a land surveyor-intern in this state.
(c) Upon passage of the examination pursuant to subsection (4)(a) of this section, the applicant shall be licensed as a professional land surveyor if the applicant is otherwise qualified pursuant to section 12-120-312.
(d) The board may allow an applicant to substitute for one year of experience the satisfactory completion of one academic year in a curriculum approved by the board. The substitution of education for experience shall not exceed three years.
(e) This subsection (4) is repealed, effective July 1, 2020.
?ÿ
When I was enrolled at MetroState College in 2008, I had no idea that we were the last formal admitted survey class, ( the lost their ABET accreditation) and had no possible way to finish all of the curriculum within the follow on year or so they were granted (sans ABET...about worth a bucket of warm spit IMHO).
This was also due in part by my non-supportive employer that just expected field crew to stay field crew, and drafters were project managers with little of no field experience and that was their model.
Just the logistics of trying to digest Colorado's laws regarding getting a surveying license, is the crux.?ÿ It's not anymore complex than it used to be, but legislators and lawyers made it impossible to negotiate and understand in its previous simplicity and again IMHO ruined the process to seek a license and career in Colorado for surveying.....
Sorry....It really chaps my hide.....
(mic drop...)
Thanks. Interesting that they still allow qualification with a two year degee.
I'm not sure what the obsession with ABET is. The vast majority of states that have ABET language in their requirments also have an option for a non ABET degree. Most even have an option for a non surveying degree.
