AI Assistant
Notifications
Clear all

Does the "natural monument" hold over the bearings and distances?

13 Posts
11 Users
0 Reactions
1,177 Views
dmyhill
(@dmyhill)
Posts: 3080
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Soliciting your opinion on the attached legal description.?ÿ

Do you hold the bearing and distances, or do you field locate the "base" and hold that?

It should be noted that I found rebar and cap at about half of the angle points of the described boundary.

This is my answer:

We show the covenant as understood by us to be described. However, there may be some ambiguity with the location if one was to argue that the calls to, ƒ??the base of the hill,ƒ? and, ƒ??the base of an existing hillƒ? represents a call to and along a natural monument and that the physical location of the base (toe?) as seen in the eyes of a surveyor or engineer supersedes the called out and described location in the legal description. This appears to be the approach of (another surveyor).

I find this approach to be problematic in that the legal description of Parcel 1 the covenant areaƒ??s north boundary is specifically described as, ƒ??ƒ??the base of the hill as described in Parcel 2 belowƒ??ƒ? This appears to define the base of the hill not by future analysis of contours and slopes, but by the courses laid out in the description of Parcel 2. That said, I am open to discussion on the location with your counsel or with another surveyor, and I will reach out to other professionals to gain their opinions.


 
Posted : March 9, 2022 4:07 pm
bill93
(@bill93)
Posts: 9977
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Your argument sounds good to me. Base of hill is very ambiguous unless there is some natural line evident, which there usually is not.?ÿ Someone has defined base of hill, so using their definition sounds reasonable.


 
Posted : March 9, 2022 4:20 pm
fairbanksls
(@fairbanksls)
Posts: 824
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Hold the bearings and distances that go along the base of the hill.?ÿ The base of the hill more than likely does not follow a contour line.?ÿ Things like this were bound to happen when marijuana was legalized.


 
Posted : March 9, 2022 4:57 pm
holy-cow
(@holy-cow)
Posts: 25672
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Run with it.?ÿ Using such generalized descriptions made sense to someone many decades ago.?ÿ The best attempt at defining the base of the hill, as already done, makes the most sense in your case.


 
Posted : March 9, 2022 5:53 pm
james-fleming
(@james-fleming)
Posts: 5732
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

My initial though is the the topographic calls were descriptive of the general location. Reading further, given the purpose of the parcel description in the first place (to protect a view), I can definitely see an argument that if the intent is to protect the view over time then topographic calls better express the intent of the grantors.?ÿ

Was it Wattles or Curt Brown that wrote "of course, the contrary can always be shown"?ÿ?ÿ


 
Posted : March 10, 2022 7:46 am

bill93
(@bill93)
Posts: 9977
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 
Posted by: @james-fleming

Reading further, given the purpose of the parcel description in the first place (to protect a view

How many skipped reading that?

Regardless of where the line is drawn, the owners of the benefitted property will ignore it to achieve their purpose.


 
Posted : March 10, 2022 8:22 am
peter-lothian
(@peter-lothian)
Posts: 1226
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I would run with the bearing and distance calls, so long as they reasonably follow the base of the hill in reality. If they clearly ran part way up the hill, or ran hundreds of feet away from the area you would interpret as the base of the hill, then I would be asking "why?". Did the hill get excavated? Was fill (improbably) added to the hill? Did somebody screw up the bearing - distance calls?


 
Posted : March 10, 2022 8:25 am
aliquot
(@aliquot)
Posts: 2323
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

The natural monument holds, but....when boundaries are hard to define the first bona fied?ÿattempt to fix them will hold. In other words, if the metes are a reasonable?ÿ attempt to delineate the bounds than you should hold them.?ÿ


 
Posted : March 10, 2022 9:39 am
lurker
(@lurker)
Posts: 1132
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

As long as the bearings and distances can reasonably be interpreted as the base of the hill they should be honored. The only way to ignore them and substitute something different would be if those calls didn't represent a "base of the hill" interpretation. For someone to think their interpretation of the toe is superior and should be held instead is pretty self absorbed.


 
Posted : March 10, 2022 10:24 am
FL/GA PLS
(@flga-pls)
Posts: 7403
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

@dmyhill

I donƒ??t have a clue as to the value of the property described or any advice, but if the description(s)/boundaries are disputed, it will be a great legal case to follow. ?????ÿ


 
Posted : March 10, 2022 10:54 am

Norman_Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
Posts: 8310
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 
Posted by: @james-fleming

Was it Wattles or Curt Brown that wrote "of course, the contrary can always be shown"?ÿ?ÿ

Curt Brown dedicated BC&LP, 2nd Edition, as follows:


 
Posted : March 10, 2022 12:11 pm
dave-karoly
(@dave-karoly)
Posts: 11990
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

If the described bearings and distances reasonably follow the base of the hill then it seems to me that holding them would be in compliance with the description. Especially so if 10 different surveyors could locate the base of the hill in 10 different locations.

Generally specific language holds over general language.


 
Posted : March 10, 2022 12:34 pm
dmyhill
(@dmyhill)
Posts: 3080
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 
Posted by: @flga-2-2

@dmyhill

I donƒ??t have a clue as to the value of the property described or any advice, but if the description(s)/boundaries are disputed, it will be a great legal case to follow. ?????ÿ

the value is such that the difference is more of an inconvenience than a lawsuit.


 
Posted : March 10, 2022 1:48 pm