Maybe this should be under humor?
Please verify east survey line, as well as the coordinates for the corners. According to the three different GIS maps used, the coordinates for the corners place each spot closer to the Eastern survey line by a margin of approximately 275’, versus the call distances shown on the plat (this applies to all 3 coordinate systems: State Plane, Lat/Long, and decimal degrees). If the calls are correct, please revise the coordinates and submit a revised plat. If the coordinates are correct, please revise the call distances and submit a corrected plat.
o.O
I felt pretty good about that boundary but if 3 different GIS maps show my on-the-ground survey tied to original monuments is wrong... I guess I better change that plat.
Wow! 275 ft!?!? That's some pretty lousy GIS. Ours is usually off, but tends to be within 10 ft or so.
> Wow! 275 ft!?!? That's some pretty lousy GIS. Ours is usually off, but tends to be within 10 ft or so.
I heard that New Jersey is the only state that allows only Surveyors to work on the county GIS maps.
They are using the Original Texas Land Survey (OTLS) Shapefile that has been discussed around here before. It is based on scanned, 1"=4000 varas (1"~11111'), paper, hand-drafted county survey maps that were compiled from original field notes of the surveys. In this area most of the field notes were pencil whipped "office notes". I'd say 275 feet is pretty good in this part of West Texas. I have seen one area where there is about 700+ feet difference between the GIS corner and the corner on the ground.
I believe ours are digitized (traced) versions of municipal tax assessment parcel maps overlaid onto ortho-rectified aerial photos. They usually work out pretty well. I would never survey off of them, but to show general unlabeled lot lines offsite they are quite a time saver.
> They are using the Original Texas Land Survey (OTLS) Shapefile that has been discussed around here before. It is based on scanned, 1"=4000 varas (1"~11111'), paper, hand-drafted county survey maps that were compiled from original field notes of the surveys. In this area most of the field notes were pencil whipped "office notes". I'd say 275 feet is pretty good in this part of West Texas. I have seen one area where there is about 700+ feet difference between the GIS corner and the corner on the ground.
This is the kind of information that needs to be in the hands of the good people that think we have 3 different coordinate systems:
> (this applies to all 3 coordinate systems: State Plane, Lat/Long, and decimal degrees).
That made me laugh out loud....:woot:
Reír en voz alta
Is it just Monday or April 1 redux?
Their reply just popped up in the email. Apparently my first reply was not sufficient. |-)
Here was my initial reply:
The plat that I prepared is based on an “on the ground survey” tied to original survey monuments.
I am familiar with the GIS Maps referred to. It is my understanding that these section lines have been developed from scanning paper General Land Office county maps which were then rubbersheeted to fit known points. My experience with these maps is that there are rarely any corners indicated that have positional tolerances sufficient to meet even minimal standards for a land survey. I have personally tied survey corners anywhere from 300 to 700+ feet away from the location indicated by the GIS maps. For your consideration, I submit the metadata from the RRC GIS Maps:
PLEASE NOTE: This dataset is NOT intended to be used as an authoritative public record for any geographic location or as a legal document and has no legal force or effect. Users are responsible for checking the accuracy, completeness, currency and/or suitability of this dataset themselves. The Commission makes no representation, guarantee or warranty as to the accuracy, completeness, currency, or suitability of this dataset, which is provided "AS IS". The Commission specifically disclaims any and all warranties, representations or endorsements, expressed or implied, with regard to this dataset, including, but not limited to, the warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, or noninfringement of privately owned rights. The Railroad Commission recommends that any graphic product made from this dataset should include the statement "Interpreted survey lines provided by the Railroad Commission of Texas; this is not a survey product."
As a Land Surveyor Registered by the State of Texas, I stand by my professional opinion of the boundary location as determined by a field survey. Please contact me if you have any additional questions. Thanks.
lol, wow, completely clueless, they are so invested in GIS they can't see how "off" it usually is.........
Normally here you can just look at it and see all the issues, section lines way off fences or roads, subdivision lines not aligning with imporvements, ect, it's usually visually easy to see:-(
Is it just Monday or April 1 redux?
I would have answered generally like this:
As a professional, I REFUSE to adjust my superior data to an inferior data set.
If you wish to embarrass yourself by doing so, please feel free to continue in your actions.
Good Day.
😛
Is it just Monday or April 1 redux?
> Their reply just popped up in the email. Apparently my first reply was not sufficient. |-)
>
Your reply should have been more than sufficient! OK DON'T LEAVE US HANGING!! Post their rebuttal for our entertainment and further education to the wonders of GIS misuse!
Is it just Monday or April 1 redux?
My second reply was:
I’m not sure how to respond to it any better than I already did.
To directly and succinctly answer the question:
I have verified the boundary, coordinates and calls for my plat. I did not see any errors in the values that I have reported.
You are trying to check a boundary survey from a “rough sketch” map that is not a boundary survey. There is nothing that can be done to the survey to make it match an incorrect GIS map.
The issue seems to have been resolved as someone with more experience stepped in and said my statement was sufficient. I have deleted/modified identifying elements of this conversation and won't be sharing their reply. The gist of their comments is sufficient.
Is it just Monday or April 1 redux?
I do understand where they are coming from. They dont know anything about Surveying or GIS. Three GIS say this, One Surveyor is saying this. The main thing is there is no one on the GIS database to call or email and say why are yall off 275 feet from the Surveyor, where did your data come from? It is just easier to email the Surveyor and blame us.
However after your first email reply that should have been enough for them to quit asking you to correct the difference.
Is it just Monday or April 1 redux?
One million attaboys are hereby duly awarded, Sir. Excellent communication.
Extra points for diplomacy Mr. Nold. :-X
Is it just Monday or April 1 redux?
> My second reply was:
>
> I’m not sure how to respond to it any better than I already did.
Possibly a more direct way to answer would be along the lines of this:
The RR Commission GIS is grossly incorrect and unreliable as a representation of where original land grants are really located. For example, that GIS shows the NE corner of Such-and-Such a Survey as being at [Lat, Long] whereas the corner is really in place at [Lat, Long] and has always been in that position. In other words, the GIS mistakenly shows that corner to be approximately XXX ft. away from where the corner really and truly has always been located upon the ground since the day that the land grant was originally surveyed in 18XX.
Everything is bigger in Texas, even the errors.
Thanks Glenn. I had to edit the messages before I sent them.
The second one I changed "cartoon" to "rough sketch".
On the first one I took out "If you have a registered surveyor on staff or as a consultant, you may wish to discuss with them the difference between a GIS Map and an on-the-ground survey"
It was difficult not to be a DB about it. I'm sure it was just an eager new employee who thought they found a glaring mistake.
Perhaps we should suggest that the GIS people starts drawing their maps in crayon. It might give a more accurate impression of their maps' value.
Is it just Monday or April 1 redux?
Allow me to suggest the following changes to improve the force of your statement:
The plat that I prepared is based on an “on the ground survey” tied to original survey monuments.
I am familiar with The GIS Maps referred to. It is my understanding that these section lines have been developed from scanning paper General Land Office county maps which were then rubbersheeted to fit known points. My experience with t These maps is that there are rarely any corners indicated that have positional tolerances are not sufficient to meet even minimal standards for a land survey. I have personally tied survey corners anywhere from 300 to 700+ feet away from the location indicated by the GIS maps.
Less is more.
Is it just Monday or April 1 redux?
> One million attaboys are hereby duly awarded, Sir. Excellent communication.
Yes. Indeed.