Deten Pond as-built turned approval cert.

Sounds like verbiage penned by someone suffering from "cranial rectumitis". Let the engineer that designed the pond stand behind it. IF you can't find anybody with any sense to listen to your point of view, give the money back.

There's no reason you shouldn't be paid for the effort you've expended. No fault of yours that the guy didn't build it correctly. List the deficiencies in size, shape or other that fall within the scope of your license and that you are comfortable with. Let him know you can't certify that it was built in compliance with the plans and that certification as to how it functions is something that will require an engineer's judgement. But bill him for your time, there is absolutely no reason you should not be compensated for looking at his poor effort. You deserve the respect of being paid for your time. Just because he can't build according to plan doesn't mean you should do the work and then not get paid because it isn't certifiable.

This is something that has come up the last couple of years with construction as-builts. Caused me a problem the first time because I wasn’t expecting it -like you on this one. I told client I am sorry but I am not an engineer and can only certify as-built conditions. You should definitely be paid for your effort because your client will have to take your work to engineer for his inspection / certification anyway.
Since then I watch for requirement in spec, notify client ahead of time. It has caused me to lose some work because I won’t sign crazy certification. Amazes me that there are surveyors that do sign the thing but some only care about money and liability is for the insurance company.

The best solution I've seen is municipalities that require two certifications on the as built. The surveyor certifies to the grading, volume, pipe & structure opening sizes and the engineer certifies that it will perform to design standards as constructed.

My experience is the RLS topos the pond and obtains the invert elevation of the pipes and control structures. The PE will then take this information and revise his Hydro to determine if the pond will work. The surveyor certifies the As-Built Survey. The engineer certifies the revised Hydro. Ponds are rarely built exactly according to plan. You can not certify that the pond will work without running the numbers.

We usually topo the pond ,do inverts of structure then give info to engineer . he does the water quality calculations etc. It's gone way past volumes.

I don't sign anything or answer any questions that contain the term "IF" or any other undetermined descriptor.

B-)

I'm a big believer that you just do the actual as-built. He needs your information on where things actually are to take to an engineer and find out if it will work anyways.

Matt, A Surveyor Can Do That In PA

Stormwater design is part of the PA PLS exam. Not that you would want to or have to do it. Because it is described within a surveyors capabilities, you could be on the hook if a engineer never followed up, reviewed and certified your work.

Things to consider, it is not the overall volume, but the volume at each elevation.

It is not the exact elevations, but the relative difference in elevations.

It is necessary to survey and measure every opening in the outlet structure, inverts, shapes and top elevation if not open to grade.

Some important design features you cannot determine by a visual survey, such as core backfill material within a berm, a buried liner, watertightness of pipe, use of proper antiseep collars.

You can only certify what you can see and measure. If not paid to do so, do not certify to anything upstream, or downstream of the basin. The plan may well call for the owner to acquire an offsite drainage easement or to even include easements on newly created parcels, so be aware.

Key words to use, "substantially in compliance with design plans" not "substantially in compliance with any ordinance". Cite the exact design plan date, revision dates, page number if part of a set. Work only from a signed and sealed plan that has been approved by the municipality.

Most likely you will no be provided with a complete or even partial "Stormwater Management Plan". State to that effect.

Most designs are dependent on a "Stormwater Maintenance Plan". That may be simple enough to be on the design plan or it may be an entirely separate document. It may be necessary that binding maintenance instructions be included in deeds of transfer.

Actual vegetation and ground cover species may need to be noted, can you identify same?

Other things to note:

On design plans I have had to note the nearest downstream drainage structure or even County Bridge number. In one project that had multiple discharge points I had to include the series of structures downstream as far as the merge point of all outflow.

In another case I had to verify that the 100 year storm would get to the basin, despite the fact pipework was designed for the 25 year storm.

In another case, prior to construction I had to prove sufficient reinforcing bars and a "Hardy-Cross" structural analysis of the concrete outlet structure. To ensure it would not collapse. Can you certify to in-place concrete strength?

In one instance I was requested to certify as built conditions of underground seepage pits I had designed. Since I was not required by ordinance or design standards to inspect same during construction and the municipal building department had not done so I did not certify anything. Failure by the contract was a substantial expense to the homeowner. I did however change my future design details and specifications.

A basin could require a childproof fence. I walked away from project because the project owner would not sign to do so.

In other cases the basin design required a stand up area (no steep banks ordinance requirement) below the water surface elevation in case someone fell in.

The point is, it is not as simple or inexpensive as it seems.

Paul in PA, PE, PLS

Matt, A Surveyor Can Do That In PA

I agree with everything Paul has said. You can only verify the as-built visible features of the pond. Now for will it work -- I believe the engineer does that when he certifies the design. Although, PA has recently moved toward requiring as-built certification of stormwater facilities. It has opened up a whole new can of worms with potential conflicts between the designer and as-built certification (if not done by the same professional).
One piece of advice I would offer -- if you do decide to walk away, you are most definitely deserving to bill for your time. I don't know if it is a few hundred or a few thousand, but if it is the smaller, is it worth giving yourself a bad name (at least in this customer's mind and probably everyone he knows) over a few hundred bucks? It is a very fine line between getting paid and gaining future business.

Matt, A Surveyor Can Do That In PA

I appreciate all the advice and guidance. he pond is deficient and with the design overlyed on the asbuilt, it's pretty obvious. I don't have to certify to anything functional because the thing is not substantially the same as the design. My client is in a real jam here. I told him to get this info back to the engineer, let him run it through his HYDRO program (with the changes inserted) and come up with a new plan. Once that is done, this phase is over and the balance is due.

He goes out and fixes it and needs an asbuilt again. New charge for a new invoice. He should have had a surveyor there to get the layout right in the first place. I cannot let his misery push me into a corner I cannot escape.

I understand that the PLS test is heavy on hydrology and I understand some of it. I am not, however, an engineer and cannot vouch for functionality of a design I didn't create.

If the demand goes up, I may be learning more about this stormwater control.

He has his map showing his deficiencies and he left with his head hanging low. A broken man.

The certification

There must be a whole pile of unseen dangers behind the certification.
The only thing I received was a "set" of plans from the builder and a certification from the township that MUST be as such:

"The stormwater, contours and BMP as shown have been installed consistent with proposed design and will retain the required volume of the storm water calculations and drawings as indicated. I hereby certify that the plan shown and described hereon as well as all drawings bearing my seal are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and were prepared by me or under my direct supervision and for which I accept full responsibility."

I suppose if the volume matches and all the elevations are correct and it's located where they wanted it located, it should work.

If, and that's a big if, this pond were built correctly and matched up real good with the design and I were to sign the certification, what liability would I hold if the contractor didn't maintain the thing as instructed? What if by next spring the side swells or sinks? I wasn't there when he built it and I have no idea what compaction he used or material went into it.

I'm safe for now because there's no way this thing is big enough.