Another bane of the profession is the $250 boundary/corner replacement that incorrectly monuments lines with uncapped irons.
:good: Licensing exams must not be asking the right questions if so many licensees have no clue about collecting evidence and applying principles of law.
Land surveying should be taught in a law school, not an engineering college. Anybody with half a brain can learn how to measure. Surveying is just a hobby interest for me, but I'm pretty sure that with the manuals and a few days to play around, I could run any of the measuring equipment.
After a few years reading the forums, I think I'm starting to know some of the issues a surveyor should consider, but couldn't defend any decision on the tough ones. Until you've faced the situations and researched the cases you shouldn't be able to pass a well-designed licensing exam.
They Have Not A Clue
When I took the test I had 42 college surveying credits and about 10 years of mentoring. After the morning part I went to my car to grab lunch. On the way out I spotted an iron bar behind the sidewalk area, so I grabbed some ribbon also. Before sitting down outside with the rest of them to eat, I ribboned up the iron. At the picnic table I proclaimed, "I just passed the test." They just stared having no idea what I was talking about.
I did pass, but it appears to have been only based on scores.
Paul in PA
My Pet Coordinate Cowboy Peeve
I really don't know how common of a problem this is in the overall profession. Maybe it's just a product of the video game generation, of which I'm not really part of. Just not my thing.
When out in the field doing recon on a survey, I'd have a bunch search coordinates comp'd up in the DC and we would be out trying to track down some monuments to use to get going. Now my helper would be running the rover staking out to some search location I'd come up with and I'd get so darn frustrated with him because he'd be so focused on that blasted screen that he would walk right past old faded flagging on a limb or a line of stumps. Practically trip over the monument and just keep on walking, eyes fixated on that darn screen the whole time.
Me: :pissed:
My Pet Coordinate Cowboy Peeve
The other day I had a crew out looking for an X cut on one of the rails of an abandoned rail line. I asked the chief if it would help to go back out if I could get him closer, maybe within a couple of feet. He told me no, from the original search point he got on his hands and knees and went fifteen feet along the rail in both directions looking for it. I love that kid. 😀
My Pet Coordinate Cowboy Peeve
You just can't mentor tenacity and an open mind into someone.
That boy's a keeper.
My Pet Coordinate Cowboy Peeve
> Maybe it's just a product of the video game generation, of which I'm not really part of. Just not my thing.
>
> ...he'd be so focused on that blasted screen that he would walk right past old faded flagging on a limb or a line of stumps.
I think some folks just aren’t cut out for it. Worked with a guy once who wouldn’t pull his head out of the "box". He had the video game component down, but not the innate ability to open his eyes, look around, process and evaluate real world information. Case in point, on a job retracing a 1920s survey we were searching for a road P.I. (old car axle in pavement) at a 3 way intersection. The 1926 notes called for two swing ties – one a nail in a large diameter tree 50.6 feet NW and the other a nail in a fence corner 28.2 feet due east. The now dead tree w/a nail was still standing as was, surprisingly, the rickety fence post and old nail. I gave him a copy of the field notes and told him we’d look for the RPs to find the corner. He rolls his eyes, grabs the RTK unit and navigates to his office calc’d stakeout point. About 50 feet south of the intersection! Announces the corner is gone. I try to nuance the situation and ask about confirming his deduction by considering RP evidence. Rolls his eyes again, brusquely points NW and quips confidently “no tree 50 feet that way and no fence corner anymore 30 feet east”. He starts to pack it back to the rig so I walked him to the north to the center of the road intersection which has a big ol’ tree 50 feet to the NW and an old fence corner 30 feet due east. From these original accessories we found the monument below the asphalt. He wasn’t impressed. Anyone going to hang their license and reputation on a video gamer? He’s now in retail and doing very well, which is a blessing to both retail sales and the survey profession.
My Pet Coordinate Cowboy Peeve
"I think some folks just aren’t cut out for it."
Mike, I think you just put your finger on it.
Like all things, some can, some can't.
Doesn't make them bad people.
Just annoying.
Don
My Pet Coordinate Cowboy Peeve
Indeed.
Hey there, Ontarget,
I read a lot of the replies to your original post. Many blame RTK and robotics. Those are just tools. Who knows what tools there will be at our disposal in the future. The problem may lie with human nature for some. There will always be those who put the almighty dollar ahead of their professional responsibility. They have conditioned themselves to thinking it is ok to compromise their professional duties and the public's perception of the surveyor to make a quick buck. Besides, what are the odds that someone will catch their shortcuts and call them out on it? Right? It happens in every profession. You have the majority of those that are a benefit to the public and their profession and then you have a few that give all the rest a bad name because they are either incompetent or have decided that their wallet is more important than the service they are providing. The remedy to the latter is calling them out on their ways, first by confronting the surveyor with their poor techniques and or judgement, elevating the issue to a third party if absolutely necessary. To fix the former, you touched upon it when you mentioned mentoring. I, too, was lucky enough at the start of my career to have a great mentor who was also taught from one of the best. Passing this knowledge down the line is key. I'm sure you know the guy I'm talking about. 🙂 See you on the trap line in a bit.
My Pet Coordinate Cowboy Peeve
> The other day I had a crew out looking for an X cut on one of the rails of an abandoned rail line. I asked the chief if it would help to go back out if I could get him closer, maybe within a couple of feet. He told me no, from the original search point he got on his hands and knees and went fifteen feet along the rail in both directions looking for it. I love that kid. 😀
I've heard that and went back and found it. Just because they put forth effort doesn't mean that it was done correctly.
An X in a rail should still be there. I'd want to know WHY he didn't find it. Without a good answer, we're all going looking for something that stable.
