Here the old surveys from the 1700's to early 1900's are all counter clockwise.
Seems to be a fairly recent, within the last 50-75 years that WV switched to clockwise.
Just looked at a deed on a survey I'm working on from 4 August 1785, counter clockwise.
Survey from 1971, counter clockwise. Around this time and a little earlier some surveyors went one way and others went the other.
I've seen surveys from the 1920's clockwise while surveys from 1970's counter clockwise.
Most, if not all (most likely all) go in a clockwise direction in WV.
If I were a clock, It would look like my hands were turning counter clockwise to me. 😉
> 8.5 by 13 inches - do they really enforce that? A quick inet search does not show that paper size at any supplier.
It's basically legal size, but 8.5 x 11 is also acceptable.
NASCAR
actually there will be a few right hand turns 😛
> I'll repeat what I said earlier, cause that is a perfect example. Are we really that incompetent, or just too afraid to say anything?????
>
> That is one of the biggest problems with our profession. For such an opinionated crowd, we are sure happy to have other people who are utterly ignorant of what we do, tell us how to do it. We have even caved so far as to apparently allow such nin-com-poops to write statutes, ordinances, and other "standards" for us idiots to follow. Isn't it about time we, as a profession, put on our big boy pants and start leading instead of being the bleating sheep we seem to be???
Better to study the history of something you are critical of rather than assume you know how those decisions were made in the first place.
Maybe you assume that some bureaucrat came in and started pushing us independent-minded surveyors around, but in fact, here in Hawaii, a lot of our requirements are based on decisions made by and through the Land Court well over a century ago to provide consistency in the quality of the mapping and descriptions.
These requirements were written by Land Surveyors to protect the consumer, not provide the Land Surveyor with some sense of individualism.
For the record, there are plenty of requirements that I disagree with, including the need for even continuing the Land Court now that private title insurance is the norm.
We are a metes and bounds state, and virtually every parcel (with some notable exceptions) needs to have a modern metes and bounds description written. As a surveyor who reads a LOT of descriptions, I find it very useful to know they will be written in English instead of Hawaiian, are typewritten instead of handwritten, are in feet instead of chains, etc.
These are all standards written by or with the input of surveyors, and if we find some standards that don't make sense, we complain about that particular standard, not the fact that there are standards.
Right Turn, Clyde
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Thanks, my whole point is made by you. The rule you are refering to can only be interpreted to mean that surveyors are too stupid and/or incomptent to not only write descriptions in more than one direction, they can't even correctly intrepret them correctly unless written clockwise. Protect the consumer???? Please?? If the surveyors are not competent to write and interpret descriptions in more than one direction, the consumer needs to be worried, really worried.
Maybe the law is a good thing after all..................
> Thanks, my whole point is made by you. The rule you are refering to can only be interpreted to mean that surveyors are too stupid and/or incomptent to not only write descriptions in more than one direction, they can't even correctly intrepret them correctly unless written clockwise. Protect the consumer???? Please?? If the surveyors are not competent to write and interpret descriptions in more than one direction, the consumer needs to be worried, really worried.
>
> Maybe the law is a good thing after all..................
Well, use meters instead of feet on every third course if it makes you feel like your wearing your big-boy pants! I don't care; I don't have to read your maps.;-)
Where you practice, are all the other professions regulated to the smallest of technical details as are surveyors, in the name of "protection of the consumers"?
Yep, one has to wonder, are we really professionals, or merely technicians with a fancy certificates hanging on the wall?
A state law telling a surveyor that any description he writes must be written in a clockwise direction? It is still mind boggling. But, if you are comfortable with it, who am I to question what you feel is necessary to protect the consumers from surveyors who obviously may not be able to differentiate between South 45-30-25 East and North 45-30-25 West.
And people wonder why surveyors are performing $150 surveys.
> Where you practice, are all the other professions regulated to the smallest of technical details as are surveyors, in the name of "protection of the consumers"?
>
> Yep, one has to wonder, are we really professionals, or merely technicians with a fancy certificates hanging on the wall?
>
> A state law telling a surveyor that any description he writes must be written in a clockwise direction? It is still mind boggling. But, if you are comfortable with it, who am I to question what you feel is necessary to protect the consumers from surveyors who obviously may not be able to differentiate between South 45-30-25 East and North 45-30-25 West.
>
> And people wonder why surveyors are performing $150 surveys.
It's a simple law, and easy to follow. It was established to create a consistency to the way land surveys are presented to other surveyors, and to the public at large, including other professions that use our surveys and descriptions.
As I mentioned, there are many issues we have with state requirements, red tape, etc. as anywhere else, but Land Surveyors in Hawaii spend zero time obsessing over these types of basic requirements - this appears to be your hobbyhorse.
And give it up with the "surveyors can't differentiate, blah, blah, blah" . It's transparent and offensive.
If you want to know more about land surveying in Hawaii, look it up - the history is really fascinating, and there were some really, really thoughtful people that devised the land system here. As you might know, there was NO history of private property just a few years before ALL the land was divided up during a very short time frame in the 1800's, and there were pretty obvious reasons to try to set up some standards as massive amounts of land were transferred.
Just for fun, here is a link to a randomly picked subdivision map, recorded as a File Plan, which looks pretty typical to me at first glance. From my perspective, it's a good map; easy to read, easy to calc. It's a professional looking map from a company that's been in business forever. The exterior boundary is annotated in a clockwise direction, closing on itself. That's required by law, and it just doesn't bother anybody here.
Whichever way makes more sense.
I guess that I usually go clock-wise on a single parcel, but if there are multiple lots, the abutting parcel may run counter-clockwise. Also, if there's a curve with only one tangent, it makes more sense to run it in the direction so that the curve comes off the tangent.
Must be a slow day...? Otherwise, why worry about such an issue (although I gather it's a matter of law in Hawaii, for some obscure reason).
I personally prefer clockwise, and create all my descriptions that way, but have no problem with the opposite if that's what I get in someone else's description. And can't actually imagine why anyone would have a problem with either method.
