This.
When it comes to ethics, the standard is not "Am I able to perform this project without bias?" but "Might I appear to be biased or have a conflict of interest to an outside observer?"
Most surveyors would perform this task with integrity. But just because they/we can, does not mean we should.
From the LSAW Fundamental Canons:
"Professional Land Surveyors shall act in professional matters for each employer or client as faithful agents or trustees, and shall avoid conflicts of interest."
From another unrelated professional site (I like this one better; it is much more in line with professional ethics in general):
"Individuals shall avoid engaging in conflicts of interest whereby personal, financial, or other considerations have the potential to influence or compromise professional judgment and objectivity."
A reasonable individual will conclude that surveying a piece of property that you own has a potential for a conflict of interest, whether conscious or unconscious. Full stop.
If I am the buyer and being a surveyor, am not going to pay another surveyor.
The seller will have to pay out of their end if they want another surveyor.
Have surveyed every property I purchased or sold and nobody ever had a problem with seller or Title Company or anyone else.
I survey my own property quite often for the reason A Harris noted although it would probably be more cost effective to hire one of the local lowballers.
I would guess that the For / Against?ÿ of surveying your own property opinions would align very closely with the Rural / City surveyor groups.
If there's a Title insurance Co. they're likely to object.
If there's a Title insurance Co. they're likely to object.
I can see why one might think that.?ÿ I've specifically discussed the subject before hand with all of the title companies involved in the times I've prepared a survey for property in which I had interests (3 times the seller, once as the buyer).?ÿ Their remark was "great!"?ÿ every time.?ÿ One title attorney I spoke with said he couldn't see anything wrong with it as he had written several title opinions for properties he had personally bought and sold.?ÿ He quipped, "As long as the insurance underwriter thinks it's OK then everything's fine".
And this may just be unique with the title companies here in Oklahoma.?ÿ I don't believe they're near as stringent with procedures as they might be.?ÿ?ÿA few of them seem to have the procedural structure of a 'soup sandwich'...?ÿ
What I have typically seen in the past is that an RPLS will the field work and tech work and then have an associate review and sign the survey. You get a second set of eyes to evaulate the data.
When the Title Company an everyone else respects you and your work, they will never say a word.
Title Companies, Attornies, Realtors, Bankers, and other speculators do their own side of the legwork and necessary paperwork daily for themselves and who is to complain, nobody.
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Exactly, surveying property in which you have an interest is a CONFLICT OF INTEREST. If someone questions your survey it will not stand up in court. When we survey we are not just measuring we are rendering an opinion, we will not construe against ourselves. As a professional group it never amazes me how ignorant we are about matters such as this.
I dont know when Surveyors decided that title companies and Attorneys should like us know when we are being ethical or not. The title company and Attorneys would probably prefer that a Surveyor surveys his own property that way if there is a problem that can claim its a conflict of interest, and our policy does not cover that. Most Attorneys dont represent themselves in court, and our work is different from most professional.
It's nice when those folks respect your work, but that is not the standard for ethical behavior.
None of those individuals are licensed to protect the public. If licensed at all, they are licensed to be agents for their clients.
Attornies (sic) would be disbarred for representing themselves in court
And why is that? It would seem they could lack perspective on their own case and be better served by someone independent, but I don't see anything unethical about it.
Attorneys are allowed to represent themselves in court. I think anyone can represent themselves in court, but you have to be an attorney to represent someone else.
I'm currently going through this exact scenario.
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I'm selling my property right now. For full transparency, I provided my attorney a map I made for myself (as information). It clearly shows the boundary, monuments set/tied to....and the shed and fence that are over the line. Nothing to hide here. Everyone is happy.?ÿ
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This sounds absolutely ridiculous. What better motivation to do an outstanding job than to keep yourself out of prison?
Not to mention saving the cost of attorney fees, etc...
I'm currently going through this exact scenario.
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I'm selling my property right now. For full transparency, I provided my attorney a map I made for myself (as information). It clearly shows the boundary, monuments set/tied to....and the shed and fence that are over the line. Nothing to hide here. Everyone is happy.?ÿ
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I sold a house (built in the '30s in a platted area) in '95 that I had lived in for about 8 years.?ÿ When I purchased the place the title company supplied a mortgage inspection that appeared to show everything was copasetic, probably all measured at the front of the residence.?ÿ While living there I discovered the distance "fence to fence" in the back yard was a little over 70'...the plat reflected my lot should be 65' wide....and I had a detached garage that was only 2.5' from the fence.
That was the one property I've bought and sold for which I didn't prepare a survey.?ÿ I guess the buyer either relied on the old mortgage inspection or got a new one that showed everything was OK.?ÿ I didn't ask.
The old saying about the carpenter's house needing repairs or the mechanic's car needing fixing sure rang true on that one.?ÿ
I've surveyed all the properties I've purchased for the simple reason that I wanted to know where my corners were.?ÿ I worry more about another surveyor doing a poor job than the potential of a conflict of interest.?ÿ If forced to gamble, I almost always bet on myself.?ÿ ?ÿ
The bankers have never requested a mortgage "survey" so I didn't draw or record a plat at the time I purchased my current house.?ÿ When I get ready to sell, I will record a plat.?ÿ No doubt an attorney could argue bias if there was a conflict, but I've also seen them denigrate old men, and call young surveyors inexperienced.?ÿ Worry about the law (perhaps a call to your state board would assuage your fears) and assume an attorney is going to try to make you look incompetent no matter what you do.
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"That was the one property I've bought and sold for which I didn't prepare a survey. I guess the buyer either relied on the old mortgage inspection or got a new one that showed everything was OK. I didn't ask."
In most States, sellers (and agents) are required to document any known defects — whether current or past — to potential buyers. You could be liable if the boundary/fencing/ garage setback defect is discovered by the buyer, even years later. Given that you've posted about your subterfuge in a public forum, it'd be hard to deny. And, given that you are a licensed surveyor you might end up in trouble with the Board.
OTOH, 1995, meh, if the buyer hasn't discovered the defect by now he/she probably never will, so you're probably safe. ????
In most States, sellers (and agents) are required to document any known defects ?? ?ÿwhether current or past ?? to potential buyers.?ÿ You could be liable if the boundary/fencing/ garage setback defect is discovered by the buyer, even years later.?ÿ Given that you've posted about your subterfuge in a public forum, it'd be hard to deny.?ÿ And, given that you are a licensed surveyor you might end up in trouble with the Board.
OTOH, 1995, meh,?ÿ if the buyer hasn't discovered the defect by now he/she probably never will, so you're probably safe. ?????ÿ
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I bought the property relying upon the 'survey' furnished by the title company at the time I purchased the place.?ÿ The fences were existing when I bought the property and still there when I sold the place.?ÿ If I purchased the property in good faith relying upon their info I believe I have the right to sell the property extending that same good faith.?ÿ I never represented the fences as my boundary.?ÿ That's one reason I didn't ever even break out a pin-finder...I didn't want to know. 😉