Buried in the pavement

Thanks for the link, Nate! I've reposted it to the CLSA board, crediting you with the find.

The piece describes the situation we face in many jurisdictions here in CA. Many public agencies just don't seem to care about monuments, despite the fact that their indifference violates state law and common sense.

Actually, Credit goes to Charlie Stein, on facebook. I reposted it on my facebook, from his link, and then put it here.

I should have said that in the 1st post.

Nate

Very interesting. And a local surveyor going public against a municipality. I tend to wonder about some bad blood somewhere, as he certainly burnt that bridge. In regards to CA statute, I bet Ric Moore will soon chime in.

But I will say that it is also very common in AZ for in pavement surface monuments to soon become sub-surface after re-surfacing, milling, chip/seal, etc projects. And/or removed with underground utility installations. The claim from that guy that restoration is "just included in the project and therefore doesn't cost anybody" is just a plain lie.

But I come from an Eastern world where centerline monuments never are required (except GLO corners). Everything is along the R/W lines, so it's not that big of a deal.

I did not watch the video, but I'm going to assume that's Mike Pallamary. He sent me this the other day.

As many of you know, I have been battling with the City of San Diego for some time over their wanton and careless destruction of valuable survey monuments. They have essentially destroyed the cadastral network in many neighborhoods. From a surveyor’s perspective, it is quite devastating and from a home owner’s perspective, very, very costly. In many instances, property owners were required to pay a surveyor to set monuments in connection with a map filing. The city has now come in and destroyed these very same monuments. Now, the cost to replace or reset them is running into thousands and thousands of dollars.

I have contacted the mayor’s office and the city attorney but they have no interest and are doing nothing. “San Diego - America’s finest city.”

Michael J. Pallamary, PLS
Principal, Pallamary and Associates
7755 Fay Avenue, Suite J
La Jolla, CA 92037
(O) 858-454-4094, (F) 858-454-4667
www.pallamaryandassociates.com

This problem is not limited to CA as it is wide spread here in Florida too. It is a misdemeanor of the second degree to "molest" any monument set in accordance with state platting laws but that does not stop construction crews from ripping out lot or block corners when they install or replace curb cut ramps, sidewalks or install fences. And the government agencies are the worst violators. Their excuse is "we don't have the money" to maintain or replace them after construction.

I think the best part of that video was the close up shot of a washer imbedded in tar.

We don't have center line monuments around here, but there is a complete lack of respect and concern about survey monuments that seems to be increasing.

I see 4' long granite bounds on the side lines removed or destroyed for the most trivial of reasons, like landscaping, even by people who should know better. Even in recent subdivisions it's not unusual to be missing a large percentage of the road bounds.

-Jeff

It should always be in the construction specs.

On IDOT projects they're usually a separate pay item on the bid schedule.

All jurisdictions should follow suit......

Good story.

There are countless instances I've seen firsthand, in just my little part of Florida, of government agencies trashing monuments. One of my favorites is this nice NGS monument on the roadside, right at a turn off, that was perfect and convenient for GPS. One day a county road crew decides to put a little 3' wide asphalt swale right through it. Not 3' to the left or right .... in that wide open space ... but right through it. So they cracked the top of the 2' diameter concrete monument and brass disk off with a back hoe and made a crappy little swale right over it. They did however leave, and actually pave around the witness post, which was brand new and bright yellow and set by the county surveyor just a year or so prior, that said "DO NOT DISTURB THE NEARBY SURVEY MARKER", and had contact information for the county surveyor. So a county maintenance crew couldn't even follow those simple instructions, I guess, and pointlessly ruined an NGS monument.

And the best part is, there crappy little swale washed out in a couple of months and was never rebuilt.

You should have reported them. Maybe if we had a state society that actually did something other than offer CEU courses, something could be done about this problem. Same can be said for the state board too.

Wuz:

Two Interesting Surveying Related (IMVHO) News Links (Land Surveying)

by DEREK G. GRAHAM OLS OLIP ? @, North Aboyne Farm (Elora Ontario Canada), Wednesday, May 16, 2012, 17:41 (1 day, 0 hours, 40 min. ago)

http://www.kusi.com/story/18431813/buried-in-the-pavement

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20120516/NEWS03/705169936

Have a read and maybe comment ?

Cheers

Derek

--
"Tiz in the flux of patience that the ever vigilant is buoyed"

I saw this on Facebook and posted it here but then I saw Nate's thread so I deleted min.

Go get 'em, Mike Pallamary!

What I have encountered is Engineers who think it's no big deal. Just put it back in with the Camerascope thingy.

They don't have a clue.

The only way to know where a monument is located is to have the monument itself. Anything else is just guessing or maybe estimating.

I think the Engineers, Lawyers and Judges (who in California think Deeds are perfect) just are clueless about reality.

Of course the Surveyors have done nothing to educate the public other than put out brochures that are mostly full of jargon and are useless to the public.

uhhh... I am thirty years old, have two kids, and a Harvard educated wife. My wife thinks my children must go to HYP (Harvard, Yale, or Princeton). My lovely and talented (and somewhat delusional) wife is also a stay-at-home mom... so I am the breadwinner. I'm a surveyor and I am the breadwinner, yeah, the last four years have been rough! In my opinion, who cares if the city tears out these "precious" monuments -- that's called job security, boys! just my ten cents.....

> ... just my ten cents.....

Great! Here is now you have a , so do us all a favor and take that and use a to place a call to the and find a new line of work.. You're not cut out to be a surveyor

Phone

That phone looks like the one that's in my kitchen:

It came from the house I grew up in -- I took it with me when my Dad sold the place in 1972.

In Florida.

ALL the plans I work from have this note: (or one similar)

BENCHMARKS AND OTHER REFERENCE POINTS SHALL BE CAREFULLY MAINTAINED THROUGHOUT THE CONSTRUCTION PERIOD. IF DISTURBED OR DESTROYED, THESE POINTS SHALL BE REPLACED BY A FLORIDA P.L.S. AT CONTRACTORS EXPENSE.

I've also had plans with notes directing us to use "well boxes" (valve boxes) to protect the section corners in the centerline.

:gammon:

That is great. I may look at things in a twisted way, but I'm not switching professions. I love surveying way too much, but I do appreciate your ten cents. 🙂

Well smarten up then!

If you GD surveyors wouldn't keep putting your GD monuments right in the middle of the road, then we wouldn't have to dig them up! I really can't think of a stupider place to put a monument; right in the middle of heavy traffic! Can't you just monument the EROW instead? Now your gonna tell me it some PLSS gospel and the world would stop turning if you deviated from the status quo.