i got a call from a potential client inquiring about a boundary retracement. i get the address, look up the neighborhood, deeds, plats, road docs, etcetera, to get a feel for the project. i then set up a meet on site.
client seemed to be picking my brain for details, rather than having a dialog about what i could do to help:
the dialog appeared to continue in this direction, when the client indicated that client had already measured this parcel and found it to measure up very accurately, to the eighth of an inch...interesting. i asked what client had measured 'from' and 'to'. client replies from the fence to over there. over there had no fence, so i guess the accuracy is not in question. no mention of markers or monumentation.
client's deed places the pob of subject parcel over 700 feet from the intersecting street, with some vertical curves in the mix. client claims to be able to measure from there with absolute accuracy (with a 15 foot carpenter's tape), but client thinks the line starts at the centerline of right of way.
i feel the visit was used as a pick my brain session and 'thanks, but i will try it myself'
anyhow, my guess is others have experienced these bid visits as well. how often? does it just go with the territory?
daaaahahahahaha
I never meet anyone on site anymore unless it is a 15K+ project OR I have already been hired an have the work. The "tire kickers" always want you to come to their property and do nothing and talk for hours and pay nothing... lesson learned right?
daaaahahahahaha
yes, it was a lesson learned. price to pay for being a kind person and showing some care for a client's needs.
good thing i still have my day job. carry on, nothing to see here
daaaahahahahaha
:good:
Spending $600 of overhead to get a $1,200 job from a one time client is just taking the scenic route to the poorhouse.
I decided years ago to stop doing on-site meetings with people who haven't yet hired me, the reason being that I did dozens when I first started business and they generally went like yours. I found that the percentage of these folks who ended up hiring me was exactly 0 %. If they're really pushing for a visit then I tell them it is what it is: a consultation, which is billable. I had one couple take me up on that years ago, and I got paid my hourly rate for about two hours' time, and they did eventually hire us to do some surveying. Since then, no takers, and certainly no regrets about the policy.
daaaahahahahaha
> :good:
>
> Spending $600 of overhead to get a $1,200 job from a one time client is just taking the scenic route to the poorhouse.
:good: :good:
So true, yet I am reminded of it one client at a time (for now). :'(
Yup. I stopped that practice long ago. I rarely do site meetings, and then only if it is an established good client and there is a good reason for the meeting (saying hello and chatting is not a good reason).
It took time but eventually I learned to just throw out a nice wide range of potential final cost early in the conversation when I can sense a problem with the client. Something like: "Well, I would need to do some significant research first, but, most jobs like yours run between $1000 and $5000. There is no way to get a better feel for the level of complication without doing quite a bit of research, which will be billed to you whether or not I complete the job."
Those who have a brain in their head then realize that I don't have a crystal ball available to determine such things. Sometimes I go on to give certain examples of how things can get complicated, but which I won't know about until doing the job. Those who need the job done no matter what start listening intently at that point.
Hit the jackpot yesterday. Had a client who had to have a fixed number in advance, like right then. So I guessed the job to be about 80 percent of the way to the terrible end. He called back the next day to confirm that his business agreed to those terms. We did the job yesterday and found it to be only about 20 percent of the way to the terrible end.
daaaahahahahaha
> ....The "tire kickers" always want you to come to their property and do nothing and
> talk for hours and pay nothing... lesson learned right?
I had one yesterday just like this. I estimated a very fair price for a boundary survey and a "plaque" for a lot line vacation between his two lots for a 20' x 20' metal building that he just erected and the town told him his options (vacate the line or move the building). I also estimated about half of the first project to just field survey his two lots so that he could move his building to the other lot and also out of the setbacks. He was breathless that I wouldn't come look at it after about 15 minutes of describing the thing to me that I was looking at our local GIS with pretty good aerial photography. I could just tell that he was a "time eater". It doesn't matter that the project is only about a mile from me, but that I'm sure he wanted me to "look at his circumstances" and give him a lower cost/estimate. No thanks.
Then he was a little upset that even if I got it done tomorrow (which I won't), that the town would take 2 ~ 3 weeks to approve it because it has reviewed by staff and then be approved by town council.
Oh well... that stuff is wholly out of my control.
BTW: I still got the project.
Carl
I've been getting 'schooled' by potential clients like the ones you're referring to over the last couple of years. Most of my work is for big utilities but I've been working on diversifying by picking up small side jobs here and there. Typically lot surveys and as-builts I can knock out in a day or less. One thing I'll ask people when they contact me and suspect they're just shopping, is if their time is valuable. Most will say yes. 'Good', I tell them. Then you understand that in order for me to get an accurate idea of what your survey will cost, what will be involved, I'll need to spend my time doing research and a bit of reconnaissance. I charge $300 for the first 4 hours (the first hour is free) and $100 an hour after that. Would they like me to send them a simple contract to get started? (At this point, I don't say anything, let them speak first. He who speaks first loses). Yes and they fill it out and sign that I can lien their property if I don't get paid? I'm happy to meet them on site. No? I just saved myself from wasting my time.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
I never give a bid.
During the initial inquiry I will mention a price range of what the client is asking for and that is as close to a definite price as it gets until the project is completed.
😉
All of the forgoing comments reflect a certain type of relationship between the surveyor and the client. That relationship is rooted in conflict. The client wants the cheapest possible price. If they can find a way to get what they want for free, so much the better. The surveyor finds themselves fighting tooth and nail to "get my fair share".
What a sad state of affairs. I submit to you that it is that flawed relationship that is the cause of the majority of the problems many small surveying businesses face today.
The key to solving those problems for both the surveyor and the client is change the nature of the relationship. When you see that "wanna be client" whose attitude is "its me against you in a battle of wills" send them down the street to the next guy.
You start your conversation with prospective clients by building on the premise that the only way things will work is if everyone involved works as a team. The client has problems (choose to call them opportunities when you can). The client needs a professional who is on their side, working with them to come up with the best solution. Now suddenly, there is no bidding. There is no trying to find a way to not pay this guy. There is only a team working on the commonly agreed upon goal(s).
Build the client relationship and "bidding" disappears.
Will that approach work with every person who calls or comes to your office? No. But it will work with enough that you can make a nice living with many fewer headaches along the way.
Larry P
Good philosophy.
daaaahahahahaha
> Spending $600 of overhead to get a $1,200 job from a one time client is just taking the scenic route to the poorhouse.
No doubt. Small jobs just don't bear this kind of time. But Eddie may have got $600 worth of education about what certain types of clients think and want. Worth doing occasionally, especially when starting out in business.
daaaahahahahaha
> But Eddie may have got $600 worth of education about what certain types of clients think and want. Worth doing occasionally, especially when starting out in business.
Absolutely. The trick is just not to make the same mistake three times. Once is happenstance, twice coincidence, but three times is enemy action.
Having been in practice for about thirty years, I have much different ideas about prospective clients than I did when I first started out. I consider the lessons learned to be a valuable education for the price of admission.