Here in Ontario Canada we have to set at minimum a 5/8" square iron bar with our number on it, for important corners it's 1" square. 2' long unless you hit rock and it's going to be drilled in, 6" or 12".?ÿ
Rebar is only for some foundation pinnings around here. The upside is our bars are a little harder to destroy then a rebar, the downside is you can't usually tell for sure whether it's been hit and disturbed, or it was set that way because they hit a rock and it went sideways. The bend is usually well below the finished grade and not visible unless you pull the bar out.?ÿ
Most of my time is spent doing construction surveying in subdivisions so I'm mainly here to learn more about this stuff..but being that I can't tell if an old monument is damaged I'm going to shoot it where it is first and see how it fits the plan, then go from there. If I can see where it bends I'll shoot it there.?ÿ
Don't forget the ol' 4' SIBs.?ÿ One really learns to develop the "windmill" style of sledging to set them on a subdivision/condo M-Plan.?ÿ Heaven help you if it's a condo and they've already placed and packed the aggregate base.?ÿ When you walk through someone else's freshly monumented condo and all the SIB's have mushroom heads, you know that crew slept well that night.
Depending on the nature of the bar bend, we usually perform one of the following:
1. if it looks to be a minor bend, note it in the notes and shoot the head of the bar (these are usually visible from above ground)
2. if the bar is buried, dig down at least 6" past the head/bend where you will then:
a. find the beginning point of the bend and approximate centre of the bar (ie. shoot the "base").
b. spin the bar and shoot the hole.
?ÿ
a. more commonly done in frozen, winter ground.?ÿ b. is recommended once spring returns.
?ÿ
We do not use any rebar.........at all.?ÿ We get 18" smooth, cold-rolled pins dropped off by the supplier of our bars.?ÿ You can tell they have a machine that snaps off the pieces as one end is semi-pointed and the other is flat.?ÿ Saves us cutting the rebar to length.?ÿ Off the top of my head, I think the pins go for ~$1 a piece (but it's been a while since I reviewed the price sheet).?ÿ ?ÿ
Forget the four footers.?ÿ I own some land where you would have to drill 3.9 feet deep through limestone to leave it up 0.1 feet.
What do you do?
The principle rules I follow is to leave original evidence in place, unless you are filing documents for others to determine what you have done.?ÿ
if I am uncertain about whether I am filing a survey or corner record, I will excavate to the bend, and tie it there, with the notes explaining what was done.?ÿ
If I am filing something for public record. I will spin in the hole, straighten and reset, with the document detailing my methods.
?ÿ
We are in limestone so the 4' sib's are reserved for swamps. I have one in my truck. I still find the odd one from before the time they began allowing SSIB's in case of "insufficient overburden". Around here half the SSIB's I try to set end up being a drilled in rock plug.?ÿ?ÿ
?ÿ
...it depends...
Is this a DOT?ÿ ROW?
Perpendicular bend is a great event, like a dozer or a grader blade so lots of other earth was moving around this pin, possibly.
What's going on around this pin to need to use it matters, so being off the .1 prior to the extension of the line as an angle point is going to define how close it is in the overall picture. I'd collect it at the point of entry( you said perpendicular so there's that) take a few photos of perspective and area, make a few notes for the office, and keep going.
Had something similar to this except no bend.?ÿ It was .08 out of line from the 60+yo plat that was derived from homestead and Spanish land grants.
Fun question and great viewpoints on people's practice in other areas.
?ÿ
?ÿ
?ÿ
?ÿ
?ÿ
?ÿ
?ÿ
A bent pin is a disturbed pin.
A disturbed pin is not in its original location.
If you spin a bent pin, and shoot the spot that you estimate to be the radius point, it's often within a tenth.
If you pull the pin, straighten it, and reset it, and shoot the top, it's often within a tenth.
If you do that, the next surveyor to tie it, may not know it's a rehab job.
90% of bent mons, I've got notes in the book:
"Fd. 1/2" reb bent. Str. Reset. Shot top, flush"
What's best practice?
Either what I've done, or leave it bent, so the next surveyor will know it's disturbed.?ÿ
Leaving it bent, serves as constructive notice that it's disturbed.
Story time:
Some 10 yrs ago, I found a very old fence cor section cor. I set a 1/2" rebar, to give it a specific point of measurement. This is coord 1.
Then, the local farmer drove his tractor and other stuff too close. Bent it good.?ÿ
Then, another surveyor found it. Tied the rebar top, where he found it. 0.5' from where it was set.
Then, I went back, to do another survey. I pulled the rebar, straightened it, put on fresh cap. It's now .08' north, and 0.19' west of 1st coord.
I've got to go see somebody else in the hood soon. I plan to put it back into original position.
I wish I'd set it flush, on the first round.
Story 2:
1 mile west of above story.
Very old fence cor. I dug, and found old rock pile. I also found a pipe. I tied it. I came back 2 yrs later, and found a rebar and cap 1.3' SE.
I tied the new rebar, and the old pipe. Still there.
My point is, to look at each situation. Carry a digging tool.?ÿ
Nate
In recording states it really helps to spend that extra time in the courthouse looking for ALL?ÿ data, not just the last reported data.
Case in point:?ÿ I found stone set in the 1870's.?ÿ Filed record and noted that bars were set on both east and west sides of the stone to aid finding the stone, which is the corner.?ÿ Next guy comes along and finds the bar on the east side and shoots it for corner position.
Similar stone.?ÿ Surveyor in 1960's set bar at an angle such that top of bar was directly above center of stone.?ÿ Idiot comes along, finds bar, tries to straighten it and reset on south side of stone, calls that the corner.?ÿ?ÿ
DO YOUR F****** HOMEWORK.?ÿ FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS, DAMMIT.
very likely
A lot of what we do is pure speculation; even if it's VERY likely to be what you suspect...
That's what we do, that's our job; what was the intent; what was the original subdivider intending to sell; where did the original surveyor intend to set the corner; was it even a surveyor that set it; was he competent. All of this matters, and most of it will be speculation on our part.
Just be ready to answer this question, from the Judge, with confidence: Mr. Casement, why do you did that?
I'm going to have an AWESOME weekend! I hope all y'all do too!
Dougie
?ÿ
THRAC ALERT
Does anyone watch Judge Steve Harvey??ÿ I make it a point NOT TO.
1. Steel #4 reinforcing rod found bent.
That is an excellent and clear example of such foolishness.
Remember a deed from many years ago that had clearly been written by the father selling one acre of his 80-acre tract (in PLSSia) to his son to put a house on.?ÿ It began:?ÿ Starting at a corner post NEAR the southwest corner of .................
That description was written in the 1960's prior to a slight widening of State highway and the only corner post around when I was there was about 15 feet further north and about 30 feet west of the intended spot and had been in place less than five years.?ÿ The intended spot, as verified by occupation, would have been on the quarter section line at a distance of 45 feet north from the south quarter corner of the section on the original R/W line of the State highway.
The reason I was called in was because a different firm had completed an Improvement Location Certification stating everything was hunky-dory.?ÿ My neighbor, an employee of the title insurance company involved, asked me several awkward questions as the buyer was her sister.?ÿ The title insurance company then hired me to find the true boundaries and to identify any problems that needed to be resolved.?ÿ I believe there were eight problems in total.?ÿ This included discovering the septic tank and laterals were on the adjoining property with no document supporting that situation.?ÿ It also included a case where the County had failed to vacate old County roads that technically still existed outside of the highway R/W and one went through the garage and barely missed the house.
The title insurance company then hired me to find the true boundaries and to identify any problems that needed to be resolved.
That's an eyebrow raiser.?ÿ I've never had a Title Insurance company (or for that matter a Bank) hire me to do a survey.?ÿ Always been owners/developers/prospective buyers.?ÿ Oh, and government agencies on a contract basis.
I don't doubt you, just pointing out my experiences.
